Greenhouse OPEN Takeover – RecruitingDaily Podcast With Laurie Ruettimann

Music: This is Recruiting Daily’s Recruiting Live Podcast, where we look at the strategies behind the world’s best talent acquisition teams. We talk recruiting, sourcing, and talent acquisition. Each week we take one overcomplicated topic and break it down so that your three year old can understand it. Make sense? Are you ready to take your game to the next level? You’re at the right spot. You’re now entering the mind of a hustler. Here’s your host, William Tincup

William Tincup: Ladies and gentlemen, this is William Tincup, and you’re listening to the RecruitingDaily Podcast. Today, we have a dear friend of mine, Laurie, on, and we’re going to be talking about what she’s been doing, and what she’s going to be doing at Greenhouse OPEN, and just a little bit into her life as it is today. So Laurie, LFR, would you do us a favor, the audience a favor, introduce yourself, and we’ll go from there.

Laurie Ruettimann: William, I don’t want to go through therapy here. So I’m just going to say that I’m Laurie Ruettimann. I like cats. I like to go on vacation, and I used to work in human resources, and now I have a book called, Betting on You, and the rest is just kind of the messy middle.

William Tincup: Yes. Yes. Yes. Well, the thing-

Laurie Ruettimann: Skip all that.

William Tincup: It’s like chapters. These are just chapters. What’s the next chapter of your life?

Laurie Ruettimann: Oh, man, the next chapter of my life is a beach house. I mean, that’s where that’s going. But I’m really happy to be here.

William Tincup: Sure.

Laurie Ruettimann: I don’t think I’ve been on this version of your podcast.

William Tincup: So that’s a failure.

Laurie Ruettimann: [inaudible 00:01:07] it took so long.

William Tincup: That’s a failure of mine. Yep. No, I got that. That’s fair. That’s not passive progressive at all.

Laurie Ruettimann: No, it’s just aggressive. Well, you know what?

William Tincup: Straight up gangster aggressive, that’s-

Laurie Ruettimann: You could ask me to meet you at McDonald’s, and I would., whatever you need.

William Tincup: I appreciate that.

Laurie Ruettimann: I’m happy to be here

William Tincup: And vice versa. At Greenhouse, you’re going to be doing a book signing, which is fantastic, that folks can get an autograph. I will tell you that the first time someone asked me for my autograph, I completely failed.

Laurie Ruettimann: Tell me more.

William Tincup: It was at ERE, 2007, and Laurie, I can’t remember her last name Scavato. She came up to me at the bar, which was probably a mistake. She had a copy of our book, and she said, “William, I’d really like your autograph.” And no one had ever asked for my autograph, so I froze. Didn’t know what to do. And so I just took the book, opened it up, and put my name. I didn’t-

Laurie Ruettimann: Like you’re signing a check, is that what you’re doing?

William Tincup: Yes. And I signed it like a rockstar, I’d already had like a couple shots of tequila. So I just signed it, and I just gave her back the book and said, “Okay.”

Laurie Ruettimann: All right.

William Tincup: Sent her on her way.

Laurie Ruettimann: Sorry, about that, Laurie. God.

William Tincup: So awful. I’ve since apologized to her, though.

Laurie Ruettimann: Well, it’s weird. And it’s a one sided thing to sign a book. My book came out during COVID.

William Tincup: Yes.

Laurie Ruettimann: And so I signed a bunch of books in like the hermetically sealed office that I live in, and shipped them out. But the first book I signed in real life was for Paul Lelonde in October of 2021, like a good nine months after my book came out.

William Tincup: Wow.

Laurie Ruettimann: And I looked him in the eye, and I’m like, “Dude, you are the first person I’ve ever signed a book for in real life.” And he like looked at me like I was weird, because it was a moment for me, not for him. He just wanted my autograph. But Paul Lelonde is a super good guy, so now we have this relationship that he doesn’t even know anything about.

William Tincup: Right. No, no. I’ve got several of those. It’s like [inaudible 00:03:19] those relationships where you’re like, I value whatever the bid was. You and I both know William Smith.

Laurie Ruettimann: Yes.

William Tincup: So William, we lived together a 100 years ago, he taught me how to iron.

Laurie Ruettimann: Oh, my God.

William Tincup: I didn’t know how to iron before that. So-

Laurie Ruettimann: Teaching you the life skills.

William Tincup: He was teaching me life skills, like I was teaching him some other life skills, that-

Laurie Ruettimann: Sure you were, yeah.

William Tincup: … are not important on this podcast, but it was really interesting, because I still remember that. He’s long since forgot it, of course. But I still-

Laurie Ruettimann: Of course.

William Tincup: … remember that, it was one of those moments that was really impactful in my life. It’s weird how life deals you those things, where somebody steps in, intervenes, or whatever, and does something really important and you remember it; they might not ever-

Laurie Ruettimann: For sure.

William Tincup: It might not register on their…

Laurie Ruettimann: Well, I write about this in my book. There was this person in the book, I call him Cameron, but it was actually a woman at Pfizer who caught me eating dinner with terrible table manners. And was like, “What were you raised by wolves?” And I’m like, “I don’t know, my grandma raised me.”

William Tincup: Actually…

Laurie Ruettimann: “There were eight of us in the house.” And she said, “You know there’s this thing called Google where you can go on the internet, and look up how to use a fork and knife,” and shamed the hell out of me.

William Tincup: Lady Vanderbilt is rolling over in her grave right now.

Laurie Ruettimann: Right. Well, it’s amazing, because I did go on Google, I did go on YouTube, and looked up table manners and then bought the book, Emily Post’s Etiquette, right?

William Tincup: Oh, yeah.

Laurie Ruettimann: It changed my life. All because this woman, who we shall call Cameron, shamed the hell out of me at a corporate dinner. Thank God she did, because I had spent like 29 years eating like an animal. So time’s changed, thank god.

William Tincup: The Scottish eats with their fingers, so you could just kind of play their card, and go, “I’m Scottish, so what’s the problem? It’s cultural.”

Laurie Ruettimann: That’s what you do at Cipriani in New York, you eat with your fingers. So I was due for shaming, and the professional development was important. So yeah, you’re right, I mean takes a village to grow up, and learn things.

William Tincup: It does. And these imprints that people live on… Take us a little bit through your book. You could do anything, why did you write a book? Let’s start there.

Laurie Ruettimann: I think I wrote a book because I have always identified as a writer, and one of the things that happens when you tell people you’re a writer is that they ask you, “Where’s your book?” And so I finally had to answer that question with, “Oh, yeah, I’m writing it.” So I went out, got a book coach, got an agent. The book went to auction, and it was one of my goals to publish with one of the major publishers out there, and so Macmillan bought the rights and published it under the Henry Holt imprint.

And I just decided, all right, I don’t want to write a traditional business book, but I do have like a two by two quadrant in my head for fixing work. Which is to focus on self leadership, wellbeing, continuous learning, and risk taking. And if you do one of those four things, all of those four things, you can incrementally move your life in the right direction, and ultimately fix work. So that’s what Betting on You is all about. That is the most boring description of my book ever, by the way.

William Tincup: It is not. It is not. How’d you come to those four pillars or quadrants?

Laurie Ruettimann: I made a lot of mistakes which are littered throughout the book. I wrote candidly about it. And so I wrote about not fitting in at any of my corporate jobs and realizing there was nobody coming to save me. It was only going to be myself, only ever going to be myself. And I couldn’t quit my job right away, because I was in terrible shape emotionally, physically, financially. I was not at all schooled on how to take a risk and bet on myself. So I had to do some research, and I write about that in the book.

I think my most favorite thing I write about in the book, though, is this idea of a pre-mortem, which William you and I kind of learned about together, and tried to bring to life together. Where you try to figure out how you’re going to fail before you do the thing you’re going to do, and had I learned about that while I was still working in human resources, my whole life would’ve been different. So I take all of these life lessons and put them in the book. And I don’t know, hope that people get one or two good nuggets from it.

William Tincup: When giving advice, because not say you’re a life coach, because Sackett would kill us if we did that bit. But you’re giving people advice, right? You’re based on the things that you’ve learned about yourself and things you’ve learned about others as you’ve kind of traveled the planet, where do they start? If they kind of feel this and they’re reading this, do they pick one of the quadrants? And just say, “Self improvement, I’m just going to start there,” and then just start to kind of move their way around the quadrants?

Laurie Ruettimann: One of the things I believe we should do is find mentors in this world. But I’m not talking about like old school mentors where you put time on someone’s calendar, and you go sit at their old cherry desk, and you act like they’re royalty and you ask them business questions. I think you should stalk the hell out of people who are winning in this world, and so that’s what I did. I tried to almost reverse engineer how people were doing things right, and they became my defacto mentors. So when people ask me, “Where do I start?” It’s like, find someone you want to be when you grow up. That could be, I’m going to say this name out loud, Gary V. A lot of people want to be Gary V.

Well, go figure out those things that Gary V is doing that you want to do and watch him, copy his moves. There’s no shame in that. You don’t have to be Gary V, just do the things you want to do that he’s doing. And see if you can get yourself a little bit closer to his outcomes.

For me, I stalked people like Sara Blakely. I stalked this woman, Suzy Welch, who was former Harvard Business Review and then a CNBC journalist. I loved the way she communicated. So I just read a bunch of stuff that Suzy Welch wrote, and tried to copy her. Eventually, I was hired by The Conference Board to write a column for them.

There are these little micro things that you can do to get yourself closer to your dream, but don’t make a big deal out of it. Just go copy the moves of someone who’s awesome. William, you and I believe there’s no new art out there. If someone’s doing something cool, do it yourself. You’re going to make it your own anyway. You’re not going to be Sezan, but maybe you can get inspired from Sezan, right?

William Tincup: Truth. So, obviously, as you’ve thought of this and you’ve been through the writing process. Now that you’re already on the other side, clearly, you’re on tour, you’re signing a lot of autographs. You’re doing a bunch of speeches. So-

Laurie Ruettimann: Wait, I’m signing one autograph for Paul Lelonde. That’s it. Everybody else, you get a stamp, you get a sticker.

William Tincup: You just put a number one next to it, and that’s it. Done. Sorry.

Laurie Ruettimann: Big X.

William Tincup: But now you’re a part of the book club. So now you’re a part of the published author club. What’s that transition been like? So you were a writer in my opinion, well, in advance of writing a book, of course, but it is different once you’ve written a book and now you’re a part of a club. And especially in our little bitty, tiny corner of the world, you’re in an elite company there. But, I mean, I see you on Instagram and follow your podcast and all that stuff, you’re also in broader than our little world, our little corner of the world, at least. So-

Laurie Ruettimann: That is-

William Tincup: … what’s the book club like?

Laurie Ruettimann: That is an interesting thing to say, because in some ways I thought a book would give me validation. And now that I have a book, I realize the only person who can validate me is me. That truth is still there. And so some days it feels great and important. And then other days I feel like a dumb peon, which is probably accurate. Our good friend, John Holland asked me, “Why don’t you tell more people that Dan Pink endorsed your book and he’s on the cover of your book?” I’m like, “John, how would I work that into a conversation?” Would I ever just introduce myself, say, “Hi, I’m Laurie Ruettimann, and Dan Pink endorse my book”? No, would never do that. That’s weird and awkward.

So I’m still kind of trying to figure some of this out myself. But it does give me entree into a world where I can talk to other authors and ask them questions and invite them on my podcast. I just had this amazing author on my podcast. His name is Eric Barker, and his second book just came out called Plays Well with Others. But his first book is called Barking Up the Wrong Tree, and it’s great. He’s got this newsletter with like a quarter of a million people. And Eric Barker came on my podcast, once, because I asked him. But now he came on and asked me to come back. And so the relationships are definitely changing. But I don’t know, I still got to do dishes, William, I got to do laundry, so none of that has changed.

William Tincup: Until that does change, eh, still got to actually put on my clothes. All right.

Laurie Ruettimann: For sure. For sure. I guess I got to get dressed today and go to work.

William Tincup: So what has ’22 been like for you?

Laurie Ruettimann: Well, it’s been okay. You know this about me, but last year, in the fourth quarter, my very favorite cat, ever, Emma, passed away. And so I had all this good stuff professionally happening, and then my little cute pudgy kitty passes away, and I was a little sad about that. But of course I turned it into content, and I went to the EAP, and I tried to feel my feelings, and I put a podcast out about it. And I have to say this year has been people reaching out to me, talking to me about their own wellbeing. And so I’m not doing coaching right now. I’m not really equipped to deal with other people’s feelings, but everybody’s been reaching out about like recovering from COVID or recovering from depression. And I don’t know, it’s been fascinating that we’re all reconnecting on a human level. So I don’t know, I like it. It’s been kind of fun-

William Tincup: You traveling?

Laurie Ruettimann: … to hang out with people again and talk to people.

William Tincup: The four quadrants, as you kind of illustrate in the book, I mean, you’ve obviously made kind of a position of you need to be more involved in these things for yourself. Okay, check, got it.

Laurie Ruettimann: Yep.

William Tincup: What’s the corporate responsibility? What’s the job, the manager, the CEO, the whatever, what… Is there? I shouldn’t even be assumptive there. Do they have any responsibility? If so, what is their responsibility?

Laurie Ruettimann: Well, they do have a responsibility to offer psychologically safe and physically safe work environments. They have a responsibility to pay people fairly and equitably and to be as transparent as possible without inciting riots. I think that’s important. And they also have a responsibility to be transparent about where the organization is headed, in as much as they can. After that, they need to stop lying to the people who work for them. These CEOs say, “We want adults. And we want people who come to work and do their job and leave the drama at home.” And yet they create these environments that are codependent, and where they’re like parents and the workers are children.

And so if we truly believe in self leadership, they have to allow their workforce to come to work, do great work, and go home and live amazing lives. And in fact, I think that’s the secret sauce. It’s life first and then work. And if your workforce is living this big, bold, amazing life, they’re going to bring all that good stuff to the office anyway, and get their jobs done and create drama-free work environment. So I think there’s this responsibility to truly lean into this idea of adulthood and detachment, and let your workers come to work, do great work, and then go home. I don’t know, William, what do you think about that?

William Tincup: I think that’s the title of the next book, Life First. I think you’re doing some dramatic foreshadowing here with the audience, and I like that. I appreciate that. But I believe you’re planting seeds of-

Laurie Ruettimann: Actually, I believe the next book is going to be Corporate Drinker, which are cautionary tales of alcohol in the workplace.

William Tincup: I love that. I love that.

Laurie Ruettimann: That’s the next book. And-

William Tincup: I could probably fill that book.

Laurie Ruettimann: Well, we’re going to do some research at Greenhouse. I think that’s what’s going on.

William Tincup: Yes. Yes. There’s going to be lots of… It’s primary research. You’ve got to understand-

Laurie Ruettimann: For sure.

William Tincup: … and some secondary.

Laurie Ruettimann: And the IRS is going to be okay with those charges on my Amex. They’re going to be fine with it. It’s work related.

William Tincup: I think you’re spot on getting back to the bit. Again, I think they have a responsibility in all four of the quadrants. And it’s the individual and the corporate coming together to then understand, okay, who’s doing what?

Laurie Ruettimann: Yes.

William Tincup: And so that nothing gets dropped. And I think the layer of confusion has been, or it’s assumptive that someone’s going to manage my career.

Laurie Ruettimann: Yes.

William Tincup: And so we’ve done the pendulum through the years of, okay, corporations in the ’60s and ’70s did actually manage your career.

Laurie Ruettimann: Yeah, they did.

William Tincup: That’s what they did. And then we got to a certain point where, yeah, no, you manage your own career. Good luck.

Laurie Ruettimann: Well, and for all intents and purposes, when companies were managing your career, they made really biased choices. Like they told some people, “Your career is going to be amazing.” And they told people like my dad, “Eh, you’re top lined. This is it. This is as far as you go.” And my dad had all of his identity in work, and when they told him, “You’re not going any further,” it broke his heart, and all he did was drink. And he would go to work, come home, complain about it, drink, and then he retired. And then he was like, “Now what?” And it’s like, “Well, what do you mean, now what?” But he hadn’t invested in himself. His skills were broken, because work was broken for so long.

And I just feel like we’re at like an inflection point in our society, where we can all speak honestly about work. Work can be meaningful. We can find purpose in it, but we can also go home and be adults and live lives separate. We can have a different identity. In fact, we should have identities of parent, father, spouse, partner, cousin, all of these other roles, and then, okay, project manager, or, okay, podcaster. And in fact, William, when I lean to heavily into my identities of author or podcaster or blogger or HR influencer, I am absolutely miserable. So believe me, I have to drink my own Kool-Aid, and remember, when I’m working too much, it makes me weird. It just makes me weird. I need to go on more vacations. That’s where this is all going.

William Tincup: Well, and you’ve got a wonderful husband that keeps you in check, and you do the same for him, right? So-

Laurie Ruettimann: Yeah. I mean, we work on it. It’s really hard. I mean, he’s got this executive position as well. And people look to him for responsibilities. And with more responsibility and money-

William Tincup: Oh, yeah.

Laurie Ruettimann: … comes people looking at you for answers. And so not only do we have to do it for ourselves, but we have to model it for other people, and that is complicated. And, again, it’s why I’m ready for that beach house. That’s the thesis here.

William Tincup: So, how many times, when you say intents and purposes, have you said intensive purposes?

Laurie Ruettimann: Oh, I mean, dude, all the time, when I was a kid.

William Tincup: All right. Because it’s like the ying and yang, when people say that, I’m like, “It’s yin.” It’s just-

Laurie Ruettimann: How about irregardless? I’m a writer-

William Tincup: Yeah, irregardless. One of my favorites.

Laurie Ruettimann: … and I love saying irregardless, ah.

William Tincup: Literally, one of my favorite words, because every time someone says it, I’m like, “There’s no il. There’s no il, but it’s just regardless.”

Laurie Ruettimann: And you don’t know if they’re just trying to be funny. Are they just trying to poke you and prod at you? But-

William Tincup: Yes. Well-

Laurie Ruettimann: … generally, they’re not. They’re not,

William Tincup: No. No, I found that, no, that they just, they skipped that day at school.

Laurie Ruettimann: For sure.

William Tincup: No big deal. We all skip. I skipped that their, there day.

Laurie Ruettimann: I skipped math. That’s what I did.

William Tincup: Oh, yeah. You’re speaking a lot, obviously, you’re doing a book tour, favorite part of speaking in front of an audience. Before the book you spoke at a gillion conferences and things like that, but what’s your favorite part about speaking?

Laurie Ruettimann: I love moderating. And one of the things I haven’t done in a long time, because of COVID, is moderate a live panel. I get to do that at Greenhouse. Because, here’s the deal, I get to be on stage with people who are smarter than me. I get to sit, which is awesome.

William Tincup: Yes.

Laurie Ruettimann: And I ask them questions, and they do the heavy lifting. So I’m going to be on stage with a gentleman named, Israel, from Axios, Israel Gutierrez, if I’m not mistaken. Claude Silver, who is legendary, and then Carlos Rios from Nordstrom. I mean, this is like amazing. And I just got to look cute and ask questions. William, my job is awesome! So I haven’t done this in ages, I’m looking forward to that.

But I do like being on stage and making a connection, and telling stories and having a good time and not taking it too seriously. So more of that is happening, and that’s always fun. I don’t know, what do you like about speaking, William?

William Tincup: Well, I love poking the bear, in the sense of-

Laurie Ruettimann: Yes.

William Tincup: … I love tilting people’s reality, just a little bit, and going, “Well, why do you do this? That’s dumb.” So I love kind of poking at the status quo. That’s one of the things that I enjoy. Also, I enjoy the art and the theater of performing in front of others, with no safety net. Oftentimes, I won’t prepare, and I’ll just put myself into a situation. I went to an event in India one time, and they had been asking me for the deck. I’m like, “Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.” I had no deck.

Laurie Ruettimann: Of course not.

William Tincup: And so I showed up, and they’re like, “Hey, we really need to pop up the deck.” I’m like, “”Yeah, there’s no deck.” It was [inaudible 00:21:39] an hour long session.

Laurie Ruettimann: Yeah. How’d you do?

William Tincup: Oh, it was fantastic, because I just got to be able to get up there and tell stories and it was fun. And it was art.

Laurie Ruettimann: William, were you a performer as a kid?

William Tincup: No, not at all. I’m an introvert.

Laurie Ruettimann: Yeah, you are. That’s true. That is true.

William Tincup: I’m an absolute introvert. I go to a party. I go to a corner. That’s it.

Laurie Ruettimann: And then you good-bye us in the-

William Tincup: Yeah, too.

Laurie Ruettimann: … middle of the party.

William Tincup: It’s the Irish good-bye.

Laurie Ruettimann: We’re like, “Where’s William?”

William Tincup: “I got to use restroom, I’ll be right back,” gone. When you moderate, I moderated a bit today, actually, for [inaudible 00:22:16], it was actually really fun.

Laurie Ruettimann: Nice.

William Tincup: But I found in moderation there’s panelists that want things really kind of scripted, and there’s a Google doc, and then here’s questions I’m going to ask. And then there’s some type of formula they answer.

Laurie Ruettimann: Got to have a meeting about it.

William Tincup: Got to have a meeting. Yeah. I’m not that guy. So getting back to what I like about speaking, I like the off the rails part of speaking and moderation as well. So whenever-

Laurie Ruettimann: Something goes wrong, that’s art right there. That’s the best.

William Tincup: Yeah. That’s the best. You talk over each other.

Laurie Ruettimann: It is the best.

William Tincup: You interrupt, this bit. I love, because it’s that’s life. It’s messy. It’s fun.

Laurie Ruettimann: So good.

William Tincup: So I was being forced by the folks that were putting this thing together, which was a great event, but they really wanted a script. In fact, they sent me a script.

Laurie Ruettimann: Did you use it?

William Tincup: They sent me a script, and I’m like, “Oh yeah, this is great.” Delete. I’m not going to look at that. Come on, now.

Laurie Ruettimann: It sounds like work.

William Tincup: That sounds a lot like work. I avoid work at all costs. So I did the moderating, and it was fantastic. The two panelists were amazing, because they were practitioners, they’re in the weeds, and it was just fun. It was a fun bit, but you’ve, obviously, seen the spectrum of moderation.

Laurie Ruettimann: Yes.

William Tincup: As panelist, what do you like? And what do you like as a moderator?

Laurie Ruettimann: Well, as a moderator, I prefer to be in control. So not the organizer, not the event planner, not the people on stage, I want to be the air traffic controller. I’m going to tell you when to talk, I’m going to tell you when to be quiet. Because I can look at the audience, and I can get a sense of who’s engaging, who isn’t, where the questions need to go. I like that ring leader aspect of being a moderator.

As a panelist, I also appreciate someone who’s in control, because again, it’s all about doing the minimal amount of work, and just having fun with it. So if I know I’m in good hands with a moderator, who’s kind of working the room and paying attention, I can pay attention to their body language and know, all right, it’s time to be quiet now. I like someone else who’s in control, when I’m a panelist. That’s my jam.

William Tincup: The only rub that I have with panelists is when they do the same answer. So when it goes down the row [inaudible 00:24:38], like the moderator doesn’t have control, which is the great point that you bring up. And you’re like, “And, Tammy, what do you think? And, Johnny, what do you think? And, Tammy, what do you think?” It’s like, I pretty much got all the answers I needed to with Tammy. We’re good. We could have moved on to another question.

Laurie Ruettimann: And, also, Tammy, you could say, “I don’t have anything to add.” That’s one of my cues as a moderator, if we do meet beforehand, you can always, as a panelist, go, “You know what? William made a great point.” And leave it-

William Tincup: That’s right.

Laurie Ruettimann: … at that, and move on. Save some time for the good stuff. Let’s not all just talk to talk. We don’t need to kill an hour here.

William Tincup: I love directed questions. So instead of, let’s go and ask the row of people the same question. I’m just like, you pick the… “Tammy, this question is for you.”

Laurie Ruettimann: For sure.

William Tincup: “Johnny-”

Laurie Ruettimann: I also hate when you do the introductions and everybody has to go down the row, and spend like three minutes talking about where they went to undergrad. I’m like, “I don’t care!” I don’t care.

William Tincup: “When I was eight years old, I had this one moment…” Somebody’s loading weapons. No.

Laurie Ruettimann: We’re not doing any of that at greenhouse.

William Tincup: Thank goodness.

Laurie Ruettimann: Everybody knows who Claude Silver is, let’s get to the good stuff.

William Tincup: If you don’t, there’s Google. Come on, seriously.

Laurie Ruettimann: For sure.

William Tincup: We bookend the conversation with etiquette. So you’ll be there, you’ll be signing books, you’re going to do that thing. Is there anything else at Greenhouse other than parties? Is there anything else that you’re looking forward to?

Laurie Ruettimann: I’m absolutely looking forward to hanging out with my good friend and CEO, Dan Chait. Dan is just a good soul and-

William Tincup: Agreed.

Laurie Ruettimann: … he really understands and loves the world of TA and recruiting. Whenever I spend time with him, I get a little bit smarter. He’s pretty funny. He’s also got a brother who’s a writer, and so I feel like, I always get like some gossip when I hang out with Dan Chait. So, yeah, I’m looking forward to just getting the goss from him and hanging out and having some drinks. But more importantly, William, I’m looking forward to seeing you. It’s been too long.

William Tincup: And Sackett, the three of us, that’ll be-

Laurie Ruettimann: Oh, Sackett, oh, yeah. That guy.

William Tincup: That’ll be interesting just to have the three of us in one room, in one zip code, which will be fun.

Laurie Ruettimann: Oh, my God.

William Tincup: Are you going to do Wordle with Daniel? Are you going to have a Wordle off or anything like that? Are you-

Laurie Ruettimann: Wordle’s kind of like a solitary thing. I mean, yeah, I might beat him.

William Tincup: [inaudible 00:26:52] like competition. You’re not going to have a championship or anything?

Laurie Ruettimann: I’m not going to do like a Name this Tune? “I can get Wordle in three lines.” “No, I can get it in two.”

William Tincup: That would actually be pretty funny, if you do that as a bit.

Laurie Ruettimann: And for all of you out there who don’t know what Name That Tune is, just-

William Tincup: Yeah, it’s okay Google it.

Laurie Ruettimann: … zone out.

William Tincup: Go to YouTube, actually. I’m sure they have the old shows already posted.

Laurie Ruettimann: Oh, my God.

William Tincup: Laurie, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for carving out time for us.

Laurie Ruettimann: Well, William, I miss you tremendously. I’m glad you lived and made it through COVID. Who knew the two of us would survive?

William Tincup: Yes.

Laurie Ruettimann: Thanks for having me.

William Tincup: Absolutely. And thanks for everyone listening to the RecruitingDaily Podcast, until next time.