Storytelling About AtlasJobs With Dr. Jo Webber

William Tincup: [00:00:00] This is William Tincup and you are listening to the Use Case podcast. Today we have Joe on from Atlas Jobs and we’ll be learning about the business case, the use case for why her customers and prospects choose Atlas Jobs. Joe, would you do us a favor and introduce yourself and Atlas Jobs?

Dr. Jo Webber: Yes. Thanks.

Thanks William. Thanks for having me on today. Sure. I’m Joe Weber. You can probably tell from my accent. I’m not originally from these parts originally from the uk but I’ve been living in the United States for most of my life at this point. And my whole career has been in the us. I’m [00:01:00] based out in Los Angeles.

And which is, when you come from London, England and the rain,

William Tincup: there’s the sun. They’ve talked about the sun. I’ve read stories about the sun there. It’s yeah, fair

Dr. Jo Webber: enough. Shocking when you first get here, but yeah. And with Atlas, what we were looking to try and do, we fill in many ways.

When you look at this generation, generat, generation Z coming through, It’s a very interesting generation. It’s the most diverse generation ever, and it’s also the most technologically adept generation ever. And as we look at hiring and trying to build the next workforce from this generation we’re, we are putting them, we are giving them really old, antiquated processes.

And you are taking this technologically advanced generation. And really pushing to them, Hey, you need to fill in this application, you need to do this, you need to do that. The average [00:02:00] online job application requires 51 clicks. It’s certainly not optimized. And I think you probably, your readers probably got, or listeners have got a in, in your head right now, maybe a mental image of teenagers today and young people today.

50% of Gen Z spend. Four hours a day on social media, and I’d argue substantial lots, but it’s been quite a bit more than that. But they’re used to the very fast, they’re used to the rapid. They used to be able to get information at their fingertips easily and not have to go through really lengthy processes.

So what happens is 92% of applicants, 92% fall out of the online job application process. Which is, I find that stunning at just how inefficient that is. That process is that we are losing 92% of candidates. So what we’re trying to do with Atlas Jobs is to really bring [00:03:00] those two worlds together and provide a platform that allows companies to make their opportunities.

More discoverable to make it easier for candidates to say, Hey, what is it like to work at this company? What’s the culture like? What’s this role gonna be like? Who am I gonna report to? Make it much easier and allow them to communicate with the tools that this generation is used to using. Mobile is, Heavy, it needs technology, needs to be very mobile friendly.

And we’re also seeing, this is the first generation coming through that are incredibly comfortable with video and use video to find information out in a way that no other generation has. So our approach really is around making a technology platform that makes it easier for companies to position themselves as employers of choice amongst generation Z.

William Tincup: Now do we have with Atlas, do we have vertical markets that we are more dominant with or or types [00:04:00] of candidates that we’re more dominant with? Yeah, I

Dr. Jo Webber: think Atlas Jobs, the name there is a clue in the name. It basically uses, instead of throwing you into a list view, it puts you immediately into a map.

So when you open Atlas jobs either, and it is atlas jobs.com or use any of our our mobile apps, the iOS or the Android app, you open up with a map and you can navigate to either where you currently are or where you want to find a job. So if you are maybe considering moving somewhere, you can look for jobs in that particular area.

And, every 17 year old on the planet knows their way around that mapping kind of interface. I do think we appeal more to for sure younger job seekers who find this a more intuitive way are finding funny things. And then in terms of verticals, certain verticals, you can’t work remote, you have to have people in place.

So retail industry the. [00:05:00] Healthcare industry, you can’t be a remote nurse, or I guess you could, but it won’t be very effective. You need to be there at the hospital or the clinic. So a lot of times, I’d say the companies that are hyper local that require talent to actually be in particular locations, the mapping makes sense because it allows them to showcase exactly where the position is.

And then we can apply other data things like what’s the cost of living look like in that area? So somebody job seeking can see hang on a minute. That job, maybe it’s only $18 an hour, but the cost of living there. Is much better than it is in this location. And also we allow them to do things like show a career pathway.

So you start at 18 an hour, but if you continue after two years, you’re eligible for this role, which is $50,000 a year. So you can, as a young person coming in, you actually get to see your career progression with a company. [00:06:00] And I think that’s a, just a very significant thing again. Particularly for this generation when you’re coming through from college and just starting your career to be able to see where you can go.

So

William Tincup: you sent out an interesting crossroads between employers and candidates, right? Or, and so what do candidates you touched on it a little bit. What do candidates need to know about an employer to make a decision to apply? And then the flip side of that, what do employers need to know about a candidate in order to accept them, and move them forward in a

Dr. Jo Webber: process?

Yeah, that’s a great question. So let’s take a look at the candidates. I think when you, anytime you see these surveys, the number one thing people care about is a salary. Anytime you, the salary. Clearly that is very important. People need to know it. And recently there’s been a slew of salary transparency laws that have swept across the country.

I think there’s about. Salary transparency is required in about six or seven [00:07:00] states right now, including California, where I am. That came in a couple of months ago. This started first in Pots of Europe, have had salary transparency laws. So a job, when a job is posted, it has to show the salary.

And it, this has been in parts of Europe for 15 years. This is fairly new to the United States. Colorado was the first STA state to do this, and this was, I think about two years ago with Colorado. And at the time you would see some very large companies posting jobs that would say remote position candidate can work anywhere except Colorado.

So they were like trying to. Companies were trying to find their way around it cuz they didn’t wanna put the salaries out there. Which

William Tincup: is, which is great. That’s a great way of going about it. We’re just transparent.

Dr. Jo Webber: Lovely. So I. What’s happening though is I think the laws are starting to become more ubiquitous.

You, New York City and [00:08:00] California being two very large employment areas have that law plus slew with other states, and I do apologize for not knowing them on the tip of my tongue. But I think I can start to see this information is becoming more pervasive so that when you look and certain employee employers, including a customer of ours, a very large customer of ours is choosing to, forget the states.

We’re a multinational corporation. We’re just gonna put the salaries out there. And I think that’s wonderful. I think that’s gonna just make it so much easier that there’s all con, you have concerns about your current employees and your imbalance. But I think when it starts to get to the issues that we’re dealing with pay discrepancy and certain people paid more, that goes away.

That could go away in a generation, right? If we, if we start to be more transparent around this stuff, which

William Tincup: is, which is part of the desire of the employers. But also being pushed, probably pushed in the mildly by the employees and candidates [00:09:00] of the expectation of, I’m just not gonna work at a place that’s not transparent.

Dr. Jo Webber: Period. Yeah. And we’re seeing, you also see this with Gen Z. We did a survey, there was a survey recently, and we did a survey recently and it was something like 92% of people care about. The employer’s attitude towards diversity and equity. And I think it was 75% of candidates, gen Z candidates said that they would, if they weren’t comfortable with that, it would make them reconsider taking a position with that company.

William Tincup: Which, thank goodness. That’s we’re 50, 50 years later but it’s nice to actually. It’s refreshing to see candidates that you’re unwilling to. They’re just. I think there was a time where people thought, I even thought that you’d get on the inside and then you’d change things from the inside.

And that was a failed bit. Whereas now candidates are [00:10:00] just empowered. It’s funny, I was having a discussion with someone last week about candidate driven market or employer driven market, and they pushed me pretty hard on it. And I say it’s forever a candidate driven market. Now, because of their expectations are so vastly different than boomers and Gen X.

Dr. Jo Webber: I and it’s taken, you’re right. 50 years. It’s taken a long time. I think the Civil Rights Act was like 1964.

Yeah. But it, it has taken a long time and we still see we just, my, my company just produced a report called the State of Diversity, equity and Inclusion Accessibility in STEM fields because Oh, cool. Stem, science, technology, engineering, and math. Those jobs on average pay two x jobs outside, non STEM jobs.

So it’s life changing, in terms of being able to afford a a different lifestyle. Having US career in stem really can help elevate families out of poverty. So I think one of the things we’re looking at is how do you get there? What [00:11:00] inroads have we made? Again?

Civil Rights Act of 1964. Outlawed discrimination in the workplace. Based on revenue and gender and so on. But, where are we, Dale? Really with that, and you can still see certain industries have a real diversity and equity inclusion problem. They still are not inclusive. Oh,

William Tincup: yeah.

Yeah. And again, until pushed, they’re probably gonna remain that way until people just, they, this is, I think something that we got right during apartheid is we just boycotted. Yeah. Like companies around the world just said, yeah, we’re just not gonna do business with you until you fix this thing that you’ve got going on, which is completely horrible.

Yeah. We’re just not gonna do business with you. And it took the globe actually, to then just say, yeah, we’re not gonna, we’re not gonna participate in this. You can change you can choose to change on your own, which would be great. Or. We can just boycott you.

And I think that’s, we’ll see more of that, in the [00:12:00] future where candidates get even more they build their voice even more to use their voice even more and just say, yeah, just not gonna work it this company, because of this reason, and everyone should boycott for the same reasons.

And you know what? If and when those things happen companies will adapt. They’ll change. They’re just, they just don’t wanna change as quickly as candidates or want them to change, which I think, again, we’re, we are living in really interesting times now where candidates are just, I.

They’re just unwilling. They’ll not work. They’ll go to the extreme of I’ll just not, I’ll work, Uber and GrubHub and do all kinds of other things piecemeal work together and I’m just not gonna suffer fools.

Dr. Jo Webber: So for sure, I think there’s a couple of factors there. William, I think you’re dead.

There is more options now. The gig economy is boom. So you don’t have to put up with things. I think the way that maybe. Generation X and the boom. I also think that’s interesting. Interesting. You mentioned apartheid, right? Apartheid the [00:13:00] negotiations that really ended, led to the end of apartheid, took place between 1990 and 1994.

Which were early days of the internet, I think before then it was hard to communicate with the world. So that was like when it was just, communication was just starting. But there was no Twitter, there was no social media. And I think these things nowadays can get amplified very quickly.

Oh, seconds, minutes and hours. This Generation Z who spend four hours a day on average on social media. Yeah. Are very influenced by what they hear and see. And that’s why I think you did right. People won’t put up with some of the things that were maybe hidden obfuscated. Not, just not as visible and not as shareable.

We’ve now got the tools and this generation are using the tools to get information out,

William Tincup: Off topic, but because you’ve studied this as well, I’ve always thought [00:14:00] that we should do some type of truth in reconciliation with men and women in the workplace. It, some type of event because of me too, but I was shocked when Me Too First came up.

The Melissa Melissa Milano first tweeted after someone else used the hashtag I. I was shocked that other people were shocked, like I just assumed people knew. That’s how jaded I am, Joe. I’m just, I just assumed everyone knew that this was what was going on in Hollywood or Wall Street or, Silicon Valley, et cetera.

Like I was shocked that other people were shocked that this was going on. I,

Dr. Jo Webber: I do think that’s a bit generational as well. I think, cuz I was a member, I was, when I did my I did a PhD in physics. And I went to an event in England at Oxford University. It was the world’s, the leading minds in quantum physics were coming together for this, the 21st quantum chemistry conference.

So

William Tincup: a lot of dumb [00:15:00] people together in one place. Got it.

Dr. Jo Webber: But there was no females. Oh no. The only other woman there was the secretary. Back in that time, I don’t know, you just, as a woman, you were like, It wasn’t a, it was very much a boys

William Tincup: club. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You’re wearing pants suits.

I remember someone about the same air, but in the legal profession that she said Yeah. Wearing a dress, wearing a skirt. Yeah. No, I wore pants. It almost emasculated me. Yeah. To some degree, like I she was telling me about wearing pantsuits to like fit in cutting her hair shorter to fit in.

I’m like, that’s just insane. But again, that was that hair. The

Dr. Jo Webber: attention went the other way. You got different kind of attention, which I think we were all trying to establish ourselves as That’s right. In our careers. So it was, and I think growing up with that, and my early job going to some of the big trade shows in America with a bunch of sales guys, and it [00:16:00] was, yeah, guys,

William Tincup: I don’t, people have no idea.

No idea the amount. Like I didn’t even know until, this is probably a decade ago now, but I was out at a conference and I was at dinner with a bunch of my friends that just happened to be female, and so it was like seven of us, and it’s about 10 30 and their phones are blowing up. Like text message.

Bing bing. And my phone. Nothing’s happened with crickets. Nothing’s on my phone. So their phones are blowing up. So I’m like, what’s going on? They’re like, oh, you have no idea. Like all these vendors, these salespeople, they’re, most of ’em are married. They’re just, yeah, they’re just, it’s wheels off.

I’m like, yeah, people will exchange keys. They’ll just hand you their hotel keys. Like what? I couldn’t believe it, but because it was happening literally right at the table in front of me, I’m like I ha I’m confronted. I have to believe it now. I just I just, again, once you know the airs, you can’t put that air back in the bottle.

It’s like I just I did have a [00:17:00] question. No, and I wrote down while we were talking is you mentioned antiquated. Systems and processes and techniques and the way that we interact with candidates and how that changed. What’s your take on like the need to have a resume or even a LinkedIn profile for people that are 17, 18, 20 years old, et cetera Do they feel the need?

Dr. Jo Webber: No. I think that’s a, that’s part of it, isn’t it? It’s a challenge. And LinkedIn is great when you’ve had a 20 year career. When you’re coming outta school, you don’t have a whole lot to put on it. So I think, and this generation grew up with video. I’m a big supporter of believer in video.

I think the thing with a resume on a 17 year old is it’s meaningless. So it’s just meaningless at that point. But a ten second video where somebody could say, Hey, I saw this role you were offering this position that you’re offering in graphic design. And I’ve been studying graphic design for five years now.

I’m really passionate [00:18:00] about it, and I’m gonna share in here’s some of the graphic art that I’ve actually done. I’ve looked at your company, I think this is where I could fit in. This would be my first opportunity. But I know all of these tools. I know how to use Photoshop and Illustrator, and I think I could really fit in well with your team that, that was, I dunno, 10 seconds or whatever, and then maybe a bit of a show and tell of my what I’ve got.

That, to me, if I’m looking at that as a recruiter, I get a R or as a hiring manager, I get a real sense of can this person stand up and talk? Can this person, will they get on well with other people in the team? Will this person do they have the basic skills that I’m looking for? So I think when you’re 17, the ability to express yourself over video is a much better tool.

And you can also, on video you get things like on a resume. And you know what it’s like William at the [00:19:00] moment. If you put a job out there on some of these big platforms, I’m not gonna pick any of the names, but any one of them. You’ll get a hundred candidates. Oh, yeah. Very quickly, right?

Oh yeah. So then you start to go through those candidates, right? And you get through the first 10 and you’re like none of these, and you get into the next 20. Now you’re starting to get fatigue right Now, the next 30, you may be glance at them, and if it’s so unproductive, And then maybe you get to you’ve gotta fill this job.

So then you find out of the hundred, you find two or three candidates, you put them forward. Now another 50 have come in that meantime, but you’re like, forget that. Cuz I’m onto job. I’m looking for how much of it just seems to be this kind of mess of timing. When I was, I’m a lot older, when I was younger, coming, going for a job, I might put out say two or three right.

William Tincup: Because you were thoughtful and it wasn’t an easy apply or apply all [00:20:00] jobs, et cetera.

Dr. Jo Webber: Spray and pray that I’d put out maybe two or three and I’d probably get, I’d get three replies. That’s the other part of the problem today. There’s so much that there’s so much noise that they’re not getting replies.

I, and maybe I’d get two interviews and then I might get one job offer. What’s happening today is so different. These, the kids, the young people are gonna put out. They feel the odds are against them. So guess what? If I can apply to a thousand jobs, I’ve got more chance of getting a job than being really thoughtful and applying for 10.

And the trouble is, it means the top of the funnel is, recently I was hiring for a developer and I got people that have clearly gotten absolutely no development experience whatsoever. So you’ve got this challenge going on right now. I feel where young people coming through, they don’t get somebody saying, Hey, we’ve looked at your resume.

They get no feedback, so they just keep applying. They just,[00:21:00] maybe they initially start with two or three, but then they blow the volume up cuz they’re just not getting. They’re not getting any responses.

William Tincup: So I wanted to get your take on the view of commodities. Cause I think a lot of employers look at early, early workforce folks as like a faucet and they just turn on the faucet and candidates apply and then they turn off the faucet and then it, that’s it.

And so they view, or they historically have viewed, probably pre pandemic, have viewed candidates as commodities. But what I’ve seen, And felt is that candidates are now viewing employers as commodities and they’re the faucet. They’re turning the faucet on and all, et cetera. So first of all, I could have all that wrong, and you’re sitting

Dr. Jo Webber: at the, I think that’s interesting.

I, I hadn’t heard that William, but. I, you could see it because what’s happened is Man Manpower, the Manpower Group did a right, a survey last year and they are telling us that we are in the [00:22:00] tightest labor market in 16 years. Yeah. With 75% of companies now struggling for hires. So I think that’s interesting what you just said there, that the force has changed direction.

The right. And that makes a lot of sense because it’s like a buyer’s market, I think one of the things I’ve seen with the companies that I work with they are not looking at the candidates as a forset far from it. They’re looking at what are the different ways we can bring these candidates into the company, and maybe it’s with a training, we have to bridge them from college or from, and I’m also seeing some of my companies really going out and going into, working to maybe bridge people coming out of military or coming out of, coming from different areas. So they’re really looking at them as a very, a valuable source, I guess I’d say.

And then I’m also seeing companies really focus on retention. And I think, one of the [00:23:00] things that you can see is it came out recently somewhere, 63% of people will immediately look for a job with a different company rather than a. Choosing to stay within the, oh,

William Tincup: yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

It’s easier. It’s, or historically the perception is, it’s just easier. I don’t have to go through, I don’t have to go through all this internal rigor morrow or cause chaos or and you

Dr. Jo Webber: also, you don’t know what the jobs are half the time. So you could be working, you could be working in a company.

Good point. A position that you want, but you don’t even know it’s available. Because I think so much of the past has been somebody gets tapped on the shoulder, Bob, I Oh yeah. Hundred percent. So I think, we’re trying to move away from that. And increase help companies. Cause I think this is good for everybody.

Help companies increase the visibility and the transparency of what it looks like to have a career at that company, not just a job. So seeing how you can progress through the company.

William Tincup: So because you [00:24:00] mentioned your clients and the companies that you work with one of the things I wanted to ask you is like questions that they should be becoming better buyers of Atlas jobs.

What should they be asking you? What questions should they be asking you and your team in particular buying questions?

Dr. Jo Webber: Yeah, I think, a lot of it is, as I say, a lot of our customers are hyper local. They need people in different locations and. I think looking at most of my customers, they really, you alluded to this a minute ago, William.

There was a situation where, the hundred candidates for a job, right? A hundred candidates supply for a job. Somehow you pick one candidate from that, you throw 99 away. Now out of that 99, there may have been at least another 20. That were actually really quite good. And maybe if they had a little bit more training or maybe you have a position in slightly different location that, that you shouldn’t have maybe [00:25:00] just thrown them away.

And I think, you know what, a lot of our, the companies who are choosing to work with us right now are looking for is really better ways to try and really manage talent. As opposed to throwing out app, here’s a job, here’s a job, here’s a job. Really looking at people as the most important commodity in the company, which let’s face it, they really are.

So what we see people coming to us at and talking to us about is more, can you help us? We’re work with both, getting more candidates that are qualified. For the roles we’re looking for. So cutting out some of that spray and pray. So giving us an environment where we can better educate people and bring in a more qualified list of candidates.

And then helping us showcase what opportunities for a career looks like in our corporation. So I,

William Tincup: no, that’s, no, it totally, it’s totally, it [00:26:00] totally makes sense. And again, what’s great about it is people that have, I’m thinking of franchisees. Yep. And you mentioned retail earlier, where they have multiple units, which means that they have multiple jobs open.

And again, what’s great about that is, let’s take LA as an example. They’ve got, let’s just say Verizon. They’ve got hundreds of stores, and so they need talent at different places. It’s just a wonderful interface. So Joe, you’re doing great work. We, the next podcast is, I’ve gotta figure out how you got from physics to jobs.

But good. We’ll leave that for another day. But but thanks again for your time. This has been absolutely wonderful.

Dr. Jo Webber: No, likewise. It’s been great talking to you, William. Thank you.

William Tincup: All righty. And thanks for everyone listening until next time. [00:27:00]