How Recruiters Should Market Wellbeing To Candidates With Jennifer Conklyn of Marsh McLennan Agency

William Tincup: [00:00:00] This is William Tincup. And you’re listening to the Recruiting Daily podcast. Today we have Jennifer on from the Marsh McLennan Agency, and our topic is how recruiters should market well being to candidates. This is going to be fun and fantastic. So can’t wait. Jennifer, would you do us a favor and introduce yourself and Marsh McLennan Agency?

Jennifer Conklyn: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Yes. My name is, I’m Jennifer Conklyn. I [00:01:00] I work for Marsh McLennan Agency as William just told you. And I am the Director of Financial Consulting here in the Retirement Services Division. I’ve been in the financial services industry for a good 25 years.

Spanning across industries such as, started in banking, right out of college, rolled into insurance, and now at the retirement services industry. I’ve worked here at Marsh McLennan for about 12 years. Marsh McLennan is the leading business insurance broker. of the world, I will say. A little plug for that.

And we also deliver benefits packages as well as what I do, which is retirement and investment consulting. And we’re going to be talking about financial wellness. So that is what I’ve been doing for about three years now.

William Tincup: It’s interesting because you’d think that this would be just a natural sale.

For recruiters, like there’s, obviously comp and, the other things that are important to [00:02:00] candidates, but like benefits, financial wellness, just get over, they just get, I just don’t know if it’s a recruiters don’t understand what that’s offered or if they don’t think the candidates care.

Like it’s always been overlooked to me is like a plus you want to work for this company. Here, let me tell you first about the benefits package. Oh, let me tell you about what’s going on with financial wellness. Like it just seems like it would be a natural part of the conversation.

Jennifer Conklyn: Yeah, I would absolutely agree. And I think over time we’re seeing that shift in the marketplace, where it used to be that, finances were very taboo never talked about how much I made in my cube and then right next door, somebody else is making this, but, As I think the workplace has evolved and certainly now as we’re seeing the Gen Z’s and millennials and, my kids, my twins are 23 years old now, so I have quite an education there.

I’m seeing that, for applicants, like you said, the traditional benefit [00:03:00] package Medical, dental, PTO, 401Ks it’s all expected now, it’s all required, right? And that’s just the base now, right? So I think, the younger generation too now is forcing this, the employers to add a financial wellness program, making that Part of, the buzzword, the holistic wellness package, right?

And I look at that now as I interpret that holistic to me is it’s the total package now. Yeah. Employees are requiring that now. They’re asking for it now. And that’s really where they’re looking, is how I see it.

William Tincup: It’s interesting because we’ve talked about total competition. For years, more is did you know that you’re also have, these things of, I remember people putting annual reports and kind of fancy things together for employees because they’ve just looked down and say, salary [00:04:00] and bonuses.

This is all I get. It’s actually from a company’s perspective, employer’s perspective, there’s these other 90 things that are, that we’re doing for you, whether or not you’re taking advantage of them or not. Okay. That’s one thing. You might not even know that we are doing it. You might not even know you have that e access, that EAP or whatever the bid is.

So I think bringing that forth. One thing, it’s one thing with employees, it’s another with candidates. I like the way that you framed it up as, Hey, there’s table stakes involved here. It’s just expected. We don’t even have to talk about it. Like benefits. Yeah. You have health benefits.

Okay. Who’s going to recruit great talent today and not have health benefits? No one. So that’s that. So I wonder, I wanted to get your take on the financial wellness piece as it relates to millennials and Gen Z is, do you see some of that as them coming out of college with debt? And thinking about it maybe differently than previous generations.[00:05:00]

Jennifer Conklyn: Yeah, I, absolutely, Bill. I see it, twofold as well. There’s the debt portion, right? We have this huge population now with this, Exorbitant amount of debt, right? And not only the debt, but so they have that working, but they also have the desire now, they’re trying to gain their independence, they’re trying to get out of their parents houses, they’re trying to get off of their parents medical benefits package, trying to establish that independence as well, and it’s really a conundrum.

It’s just, you have this massive debt, and how am I going to get out of that? Also establish my independence. And now, we’re looking towards the employer. I need help with my finances. Maybe you didn’t get it at home. Maybe you had no finance courses in in college.

And so now they have no idea. Like, how do I manage this debt? What am I supposed to be saving for? What is, what in the world is an HSA? I have [00:06:00] no idea what that means. There’s so much coming at them right now, all at once. So yeah, I see there’s a lot of stress out there. And a lot of it is financial stress because they just don’t have any education how to manage it.

William Tincup: Yeah, I think that Ms. Lemgenek, so I think previous generations especially with millennials, we’ll start with them first. Yeah. I think that we. Misunderstood or misrepresented when you looked at them and said to that generation, you’re in, you feel entitled, you’re entitled to something.

And really what it, what is what we see play out in both in the employee relationship and the candidate relationship is that they’re not entitled, they’re assertive. And the assertiveness is they’ve had access to the internet. Whereas like when I got my first job and the person that hired me said, Hey you’re going to make X number.

I can’t remember what it was, but it was X number of dollars an hour. I didn’t have any, I didn’t have your reference points like, Oh, yep, sounds [00:07:00] great. Excellent.

Jennifer Conklyn: That could have been

William Tincup: way below minimum wage, or it could have been like. I had no way to frame that up. Maybe I’d talk to somebody, maybe I wouldn’t, but it was more taboo to talk to peers about salary or what you were making and that’s gone.

So there’s this, the, what’s wonderful about the internet is that the transparency of just okay, I understand what I’m worth. And so that isn’t an entitlement. It’s more of a, Hey, I know what I’m worth and I also know what you should be doing. To attract talent like me. Do you see similar things?

Jennifer Conklyn: Yeah, I, you know what, I really do. And it actually, it holds both sides, I like to say, accountable, right? Makes for a better place. Employers now are accountable because employees, I believe are demanding it. They know what their worth is now, right? And also, I think, for the older generation, too, it’s bringing them along [00:08:00] as well because all of a sudden, like you said, we have the Internet.

We know what our worth is. We know that we are A value to the firm and how that translates to the bottom line as well.

William Tincup: It’s funny when I, when someone talks to me about well being, I always think of the kind of the interconnectedness of things, both health and wealth and and mental health as well.

And so it’s like all these things, like we’ve. Typically thought of them as siloed off. It’s okay, here’s health. We want you to be less fat. Okay, great. Don’t smoke, whatever, all of those types of things, which again, no hate. That’s that’s a good thing for all involved, but we don’t think of it that, that like your financial stress impacts.

Something as simple as how much alcohol you consume or how much food you consume. Or your mental health, like these things are all in my mind, at least they’re all interconnected in some way [00:09:00] or another.

Jennifer Conklyn: Yeah, absolutely. And you hit the nail on the head there when you just say, if you just take, I look at it as stress.

Is in the middle, right? Stress, and then you have all these arrows pointing out all connected, the medical, the mental, all of it, social, physical, but it’s all stress related. And finances, especially now people are just so distracted at work with everything, including finances now. From the second you wake up, you start thinking about okay, I’m going to, walk over to Starbucks, get a cup of coffee, a cup of coffee, I need another one, obviously.

How

William Tincup: many shots of espresso is the legal limit? Let’s see if I can push that today. Is eight shots too many, really? Come on, it’s a venti.

Jennifer Conklyn: What am I getting? Venti? What is that? Is that really large? Is it extra large? Oh my goodness. All of that.

William Tincup: My favorite drink at [00:10:00] Starbucks is a venti white chocolate mocha.

With a two or three shots of espresso in it. And then, yeah, but here’s the bad part. So then at one point I looked at the caloric value of that drink. And it’s 1800 calories. I’m like, yeah, and I’d have two of them. So I’d have, yeah, I’d have two of them on the way to work. Like on the way to work, I’d have one, boom.

I’d have another, boom. I’m like, that’s about 4, 000 calories.

Jennifer Conklyn: Wow. Wow. You didn’t have to eat all day, right?

William Tincup: No. Exactly. I didn’t have to eat all day. People would barely talk to me because I was running around so fast, but it’s again, when this, now, you can change your behaviors.

It’s, if you didn’t know, like I would have never known that. If via the internet or via the, what’s at Starbucks and on the menu. I would have, I would still be drinking that. Years later, I would still be drinking the drink because I love the drink. And of course, driving myself into complete, grossly obese.

I think, when people think [00:11:00] about financial stress, they don’t, like, how do you get the best performance out of employees when they’re stressed out about anything? But let’s just say financial stress in particular, how do you get, how do you get the productivity?

Like you hired them for a reason, let’s say it’s sales and you want them to go do, a really good job, hit quota and sales. Great. Fantastic. That’s their job. Everybody understands that, but if they’re under so much stress financially, how are they ever going to be able to do the job that you

Jennifer Conklyn: want them to do?

Yeah, exactly. And if you don’t have access to just even just financial, the most basic financial education, it’s going to wear on you. It’s going to wear you down. And at some point, it is going to, it’s going to come to a head. It’s Offering these financial wellness programs, go a long way for both sides.

The great thing about this is it’s [00:12:00] beneficial to the employer. And it’s equally as beneficial, if not more, to the employee. Because then, once, I think, once you have your financial stress in order, or, start reducing that financial stress, it’s going to start to affect, like we talked about before, your mental, your physical, maybe your social stress as well, whatever it is.

Thank you. It’s all interconnected as we know at the core is stress.

William Tincup: It’s funny back in the 80s, I thought I wanted to be an industrial psychologist. And so I reached out to somebody that was at Xerox, it was a team Xerox. And so I went and met him in Dallas, and when I get there guy’s wearing sweatpants.

So like I show up and he’s working for like full on sweatpants and I’m dressed up. I got a suit on, a little bit. And then so we’re just talking, I’m like what’s the job? What are you doing? He goes here’s the deal. This is about getting back to productivity. This is therapy, but also understanding high performers and what they need [00:13:00] at the moment that they need it, maybe even before they need it.

And so we’re dealing with cocaine, we’re dealing with alcohol, we’re dealing with a divorce. We’re doing all of these stressors or things that are happening in their life. My job is to get them back to productivity. And I was fascinated by that because it’s is it is a game. It’s Hey, listen, okay you’ve obviously got an alcohol problem.

Okay. You know what? Let’s figure that out. Let’s work on that and then get you back to a better place. And I haven’t heard a company since that’s actually looked at productivity and in the same way that the relationship between, especially their high performers, top performers, et cetera, high potentials, it’s how do we get them back to the place where they’re less stressed?

Where they’re where they can so they can be so that you can get the most out of them But also they can get the most out of their experience as well.

Jennifer Conklyn: Yeah, absolutely You know, I and I think well from my point of view [00:14:00] I think We all have in common one thing we spend so much time in our career, working in a career spending time away from family and friends, during the week, 40 hours plus a week.

I think we all want to feel valued, we want to feel accomplished where we are. We want to have stability all those things. We want to be competent in our jobs and I just feel if the employer can offer that with the, what I like to call the total package or IE holistic package What else is an employee going to want if I walked into, today, into an interview and the interviewer said to me, Hey, you know what, Jen?

This firm is going to make your life better. I’m sold right out of the gate. You have my attention. Tell me how you’re going to do that. That’s, I think that’s, we have that in common which would reduce your stress as well. And I think that’s what it’s all about.

William Tincup: It’s interesting because we, both of [00:15:00] us have come to the same conclusion, employers, the sooner you get to the place where you help people manage stress. The better. So it’s just a part of the social contract or the work contract if you will. It’s not stated anywhere in the employee handbook or anything like that, but it should be. It’s like we’re going to have, both of us are going to have relationships.

So the employee has a relationship with stress. We have a relationship with their stress, but one of the jobs, one of our jobs is to lessen their stress. I love that. That actually, that’s a, that’s probably a really great webinar, actually, to talk about stress in that way. You talked about financial programs because you talked to clients a lot.

What are they, what usage wise, or even maybe things that they want to do bleeding edge wise what type of programs are really interesting? to them right now? Yeah, I’m

Jennifer Conklyn: so glad you asked, but yeah right now in today’s world, I think What is most effective is a platform that actually [00:16:00] combines a, technology.

Everybody loves technology now. We’re in the technology world, but also with a human touch, right? When I say technology, something in the form of a digital platform, we’re all in that DIY world too, 24 7 where we have, A couple minutes here, a couple minutes there, before work, maybe after work, maybe in the middle of the night when we can’t sleep.

So we want 24 seven access. I think that’s really important in the form of a digital platform, right? But then in the form of a human touch too, we still want to have that human touch, even with all the zoom and the teams and everything that we do now, there’s nothing like having the human touch, right?

So having. Financial education, maybe with a financial coach and an advisor, it needs to be easily accessible. Convenient, and also employers really need to make the great effort up front [00:17:00] about delivering a program that’s going to be engaged with, right? It’s all about engagement to us here at MMA, and if employers can’t Whether it’s communication, advertising, this wonderful employer sponsored value to the employees is never going to work.

They’re never going to take advantage of it, and it’s not going to benefit the employer either. It’s all about engagement and how to keep them there, how to keep them engaged, and to, convince them that, hey, you know what? Engaging in this platform. is going to be, reduce your stress as well as, those around you.

Let’s face it. We want to be well for our family and friends, right? At the end of the day, if you’re, you just bogged down in stress all week, here comes the weekend and you can’t even be present anymore. And who wants that?

William Tincup: So tell me how wrong I am, because I think [00:18:00] sometimes, it’s not whether or not I’m wrong.

I’m definitely wrong. It’s just a question of how wrong, but I think that sometimes employees I’ll preface this with financial. Literacy is not really taught anywhere like in the process. So maybe other than parents but like when you go through middle school or high school and even into college other than the folks that went into accounting and finance as their majors, everyone else.

Has this kind of scattered idea of what financial stability is or what even something as far out as retirement when you’re 20, retirement is like, Oh, I have no idea what that is. That’s like a platypus. What are you talking about? It’s way out in the future. I’ll deal with that some at, at some point.

But my question is around shame and guilt. around not knowing what maybe they think they should know at this particular stage in their career. So they’ve, got it. They’ve got their undergrad. They went and [00:19:00] got their MBA. Great. One would assume that they have some financial literacy. And my, my, my gut tells me that assumption is wrong, that most people don’t have a baseline of financial literacy, but, and they feel guilty and feel shameful about not being more literate about financial things.

Now, again, I said them wrong, it’s just a question of how wrong.

Jennifer Conklyn: Yeah. And I’m going to tell you, Bill, you’re not wrong. Because what I do find, and in speaking, with thousands of participants and clients half of the session, when I’m speaking to individuals one on one, half of the session, and I’m not kidding you, And most of it is therapy, and half of it, yeah, is financial coaching.

They come to the sessions, and you’re so right, I’m so glad you brought that up. They do, it’s something, you feel guilty, [00:20:00] like you should know more than me, than the financial advisor. Why do we, why in the world do we have that guilt? So I do you’re so right, I do like to put them at ease right out of the gate.

Generally speaking, the first thing they say to me is, Jen, I really should know this. Jen, I’m so embarrassed that, that I don’t know this, but can you help me? And I just laugh. I said, absolutely. It’s my job. But you and I are going to get to know each other really well. We’re going to have a great time planning out your future and you’re going to come back.

We’re going to develop a relationship and, I’m here to help you. That literally is my job. That’s what I do every day. But it is funny that they do come to these sessions with this preconceived notion that they should know more than me and feel badly that they don’t.

William Tincup: Isn’t that crazy?

First of all, for all the financial wellness financial management experts, all the folks that do that for a living, it changes so frequently. That they have to, it’s a full time job just to [00:21:00] keep up with what’s going on. And again you’re in marketing, or you’re in operations.

You’re not going to know any of those things but it’s adding to your stress. And I think that’s why sometimes retirement is one of them in particular, maybe even 401k where people are like, I’ll just deal with that later. They, in their minds, they’re like, you know what, I’m 26, I’m not going to retire until I’m 86, so eh, I’ll deal with it.

I’ll deal with that in 60 years if I’m still

Jennifer Conklyn: around. And you get to 55, 60 years and go, oh, it’s time.

William Tincup: And again, there’s still time to do things. However, if you would have thought about it when you were 26 or if someone would have coached you, which is really the way I guess that we should talk about it is there’s a responsibility.

Great employers take on upon themselves is bringing that literacy up, first of all, erasing shame, [00:22:00] erasing guilt lessening stress, because you imagine going into that meeting that those people that meet with you that are stressed out, that they don’t, or have guilt, that they don’t know as much as you, it’s you’re not supposed to, in fact, if more than me, Yep.

We, we have a problem.

Jennifer Conklyn: We do. Houston, we have a problem. Absolutely. But

William Tincup: It’s like the employer, what do you think like with the great employers that y’all work with? What do they think about financial literacy and how they like, okay, what do we need to do to coach these folks up wherever they are?

If they don’t even know how to open a bank yet, doesn’t matter. Let’s meet them where they are, but we’re, what are. What do you see with your, again, your greatest clients in that how they take on financial literacy? Yeah,

Jennifer Conklyn: so it’s a great point that you brought up meeting them where they are.

That’s really important. And the clients that support that mindset. Really have success in these programs, because we like to think of it [00:23:00] too as, it’s not a sprint, you’re not going to see you’re not going to see employees suddenly, maxing out. Within a month to their 401k plans, we’re not going to, it’s very methodical.

It’s a, there are some short term benefits, but for the most part, the most success comes, with that long term path, that long term perspective. We’re going to meet employees where they are. Through each stage of their life. And again, it’s not a sprint. So they need support and access.

They need a, what I like to call a perspective, a

prescriptive plan for where they are now, where they’re going, how they’re going to get there. What are the steps along the way? It’s just not a sprint. It’s really a, a lifetime. I hate to be use this term lifetime journey, [00:24:00] but it really is it’s

William Tincup: agile and the plan is agile or flexible enough to incorporate change.

. So if somebody they get married and they think we’re not gonna have kids. Like it’s, we’ve discussed it, we’ve talked about it, we’re just like,

we don’t have kids, I’m all, I’m always envious, of course. And then, and I’m like, so you have disposable income. What’s that like? What do you do? You have all these, or do you just lay around on money? What do you do? It’s crazy.

Jennifer Conklyn: It is, yeah, or, yeah, or in my case, I’ll just give you a little bit of my history when I thought, yeah, the same thing, we’re not gonna have kids, I lived it a little bit, and then, here I go I’m a very type A person, planning everything out.

Ready to start a family and boom, what happens to me? I go to the doctor, twins, you’re having twins, really, that was not in my plan.

William Tincup: Say that again, I can see the stunned. look on everyone’s face [00:25:00] at that moment. It’s yeah, say that. So just I just thought if I heard you say something, I just want to make sure.

Jennifer Conklyn: Let me tell you, that was the end of my type A personality. It went all out the window.

William Tincup: So the plan’s gotta be flexible again. Whether or not we’re going to buy a house or lease, we’re going to get a second house or whatever we’re going to do, kids in private school, public school, like there’s all these different kinds of decision trees that get made through life.

And so the plan is always adapting to those changes and it’s still reaching the goal of whatever. And, or maybe the goals are changing. Great.

Jennifer Conklyn: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Always adaptability. It’s another great component of the, of a financial wellness program. Always tweaking. Always

William Tincup: tweaking. It’s like working with a coach.

My, both my sons 17 and 13. So they work with a body yeah, exactly the but they work [00:26:00] with a bodybuilder twice a week. And so they’ll ask me, Hey dad, should we do the, I’m like, I’m not a bodybuilder. Coach Frazier is a bodybuilder. They’re like, we ran three miles in cross country this morning.

What do we, you don’t have to do cardio. I’m like, if he says you need to do cardio. You do cardio, you do what, again, he’s the expert, let the expert be the expert. I did, the way that we came into this is topically is how recruiters should market wellbeing to candidates. And what we’ve talked about is just that is, is okay.

How do you talk about these things? You talk about literacy, you talk about programs, you talk about how you’re going to help them with their stress. Like you meet, you talk to them about that. As a recruiter, you don’t, that’s just. You don’t leave the conversation unsaid. You just talk to them.

Say, Hey, listen, we’re all stressed out about something. Hey, stress is there. But we don’t want you to be stressed out about these things. This is why programmatically we have these things that are going to help you, and [00:27:00] yeah It’s tangential to all the stuff that you care about remote work or flexible work being one, your compensation being another.

Yep. All those things that you think are important, they are important. Checked. But there’s this whole host of things that you might not, might be on, might not be on your list. And the company or, your employer cares deeply about those things to make sure that you are in a good place and that you do a great job.

Jennifer Conklyn: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

William Tincup: So last question before we roll out is, what’s the most misunderstood? Kind of thing in wellbeing or even financial wellness. Like when you just look across everything, like I’ll pick on 401ks cause they’re easy. So if you’re 23. The concept of a 401k, again, unless you’ve been in the space, you understand what they do.

It’s just it’s almost like a dolphin and a unicorn got together and I’ll figure it out later. Don’t know what it is. [00:28:00] Sure. I’m sure it’s important because people keep saying 401k, I’m sure it’s important, but I don’t know what it is. And at one point I’ll figure it out. Now that’s just me, but you’re the expert and you talk to clients all the time.

What’s. Yeah. Yeah. Commonly misunderstood.

Jennifer Conklyn: I think one of, one of the most common misconceptions is when to get started, waiting to get started, right? In life, as getting started is the hardest part. And I try to impart, especially on, like 23 year olds, start now, just get started, keep it up.

Don’t touch your 401k, and by the time you retire, and then that’s, you have to have that trust as well. Getting started and trusting that, what I’m telling you is going to come to fruition, and I always like to tell, especially people just getting into their 401k is just get [00:29:00] started. Let the money work for you.

Trust me when I tell you, let the money work for you. Leave it

William Tincup: alone. Just set it, and walk away. Walk away. Don’t think about it. I still have shares from from when I worked for Walmart a hundred years ago. And I don’t even open them because I, we, back then, Walmart stock would split like twice a year.

It was crazy. And And you could do it back then again, this 80s, it was dollar for dollar matching unlimited. Oh my goodness. So you could put in as much as you want and they’d match it. I have a JP Morgan account with all of that in it. I don’t even look at, I don’t even look at when it shows up, whatever quarterly or whatever the report shows up, I just shred it.

I don’t look at it, I don’t even know what’s there yeah, because on the occasion, when, I can tell

Jennifer Conklyn: from your voice and [00:30:00] how calm you are that you don’t look at it. And that’s another piece of advice that I give to people as well. Because we know what your goal is, we’ve set your plan, now walk away. Yeah. Don’t look

William Tincup: at it. There’s no need. There’s no need because there’s ups and downs in the market.

And so you, if you look at it, it’s Hey, I have a 380, 000 Oh my goodness, that’s great. And then the next time you look at it, it’s 200, 000. You’re going to be like, wait a minute, I lost. No, you didn’t. No, you didn’t. Mark is going to come back. Don’t worry about it. This has been fantastic, Jennifer. Thank you so much for carving out time for us in our audience.

Jennifer Conklyn: Absolutely. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you and I hope to speak with you again soon.

William Tincup: 100%. And thanks for everyone listening. Until next time.