Storytelling About 100 Coaches With Jacquelyn Lane

William Tincup: [00:00:00] This is William Tincup and you’re listening to the Use Case podcast. Today we have Jacqueline on from a hundred coaches, and we’ll be learning about the use case, business case, et cetera, for a hundred coaches. So why don’t we start with introductions. Jacqueline, would you do us a favor and introduce your yourself and a hundred coaches?

Jacquelyn Lane: Fantastic. Thank you so much, William. It’s a pleasure to be here. A hundred coaches was started about seven years ago by a man named Marshall Goldsmith who’s globally recognized as the number one executive coach. He invented most of the methods that are now used for executive [00:01:00] coaching about four decades ago.

And so even if you don’t know Marshall, You may be aware of some of his methods. If you’re aware of things like the 360 process or stakeholder centered coaching or some of the most commonly used methods, or you might have read his books. What got you here won’t get you there, or triggers or some of the other New York Times bestsellers.

So Marshall, seven years ago decided that he wanted to teach 15 people everything that he knew and it was a pay it forward project. And around that time he created a video on LinkedIn and encouraged people to apply. And over 12,000 people applied. Now over 20,000 people have applied to be a part of this community and to learn from Marshall and learn Marshall’s methods.

And now I guess it’s been seven years and we now have around 400 members total. So of course 100 is now a denotation of quality rather than of quantity. This is a community of top thought leaders, executive coaches and executives. And now on top of that, we’ve created the a hundred coaches agency.

And we [00:02:00] exist quite simply because it’s hard to find an executive coach, especially at the highest levels. And companies actually were starting to approach us several years ago and asking if we might be able to make those recommendations for them because, it’s a fragmented market and difficult to navigate.

William Tincup: Especially so now, especially

Jacquelyn Lane: at that level, right? Oh, exactly. Exactly. So what’s,

William Tincup: I’ve always wondered about this, what’s the hardest with executive coaching? The highest level, the board, C-suite, et cetera vice presidents, et cetera. What’s the barrier?

What’s the hardest thing to, to the algebra or whatever you’re figuring out to make that a great match? For both the coach as well as the person being coached.

Jacquelyn Lane: Yeah. It’s such a wonderful question. And the answer is, that’s more it’s both an art and a science, right?

There’s something about the feel and the fit that’s really important. We have seen this many times where just [00:03:00] because someone is a great coach doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re a great coach for you. And so finding that right equation is where we see sparks fly. And so of course, it’s based upon, some level of past experience and similar understanding, maybe a subject matter expertise.

That some of those harder skills or things you might see on someone’s resume that say why these two people would be good for one another and might collaborate well together. But then there’s also the softer side that we’re looking at, which is maybe a personality or some other kind of intangible feeling that we get.

And that comes from knowing two people and being in relationship with two people. So I wish there was some secret formula. There’s not. But we know that it’s worth shooting for that

William Tincup: great match. It’s like a lot of things. It depends, right? But I love the what you said, because a great coach doesn’t necessarily mean a great coach for you.

Have you, this is probably a dumb question, but bear with me. Do. [00:04:00] Do men and women need different things from coaches? Again, dumb question alert, cuz I don’t know, especially at that level. I don’t know if there’s that much diff of a difference or if it’s really different, at the executive level or if men and women, basically they, need the, needed the same things and need coaches that kind of help can help them with the same things.

Or if their needs

Jacquelyn Lane: are different. That’s such a good question. Thank you for asking that. After now, having talked to several hundred executives over the course of the last several years and being really involved with this curation and matching process myself there are some trends and things that start to emerge, one thing that’s interesting is, of course, the higher up the leader is in an organization, the less likely they are to be a woman.

That’s just, based on my own observation. And so if there are fewer women reaching those levels it says that their experience is a little different because they’re becoming more and more a [00:05:00] minority as they rise. But additionally, there are women at those slightly lower levels that are trying to reach the highest levels.

And of course their needs are potentially a little bit different because they’re charting uncharted territory. And so it makes perfect sense that they would need some additional support. But I would say in general, it’s hard to make generalizations between men and women because each individual is really different and their situation is different and their company culture is different.

And so there are, there is still a lot of variability even within the, each of those categories.

William Tincup: Again, is there, is we said that there was less women at the, at that level. Are there less coaches or there less,

Jacquelyn Lane: less female coaches? Oh, less female coaches at the highest level? Yeah. That’s a really interesting question as well.

So the coaching industry actually is skewed more heavily towards women. There are more female coaches than male coaches. But at the very highest levels, I would say yes, [00:06:00] there do tend to be, in my observation more men coaching at the very highest levels. But we are, that is something we’re really trying to shift in our work with a hundred coaches as well.

And we do think there are a lot of really amazing female coaches that are coaching at the very highest level.

William Tincup: That’s interesting. It’s interesting that the people that need the coaching. And again not like my wife works in a male dominated space architecture. And she actually, if you were to talk to her about it, she actually does better with men than she does with women.

So if she were to have an executive coach, she’d probably pick a male, not a female, which I don’t know what’s going on there But, so I guess it all comes down to what do you need as a, I say mentee or coachee? What do you need to then figure out? How do, yeah, let me rephrase.

How does someone, like on the what do you call ’em coachees? What do you call them? Yeah,

Jacquelyn Lane: you could call them a [00:07:00] coachee or a client.

William Tincup: Client. Okay. On the client side, it’s easier cause coach coachee just leads me to a bunch of different places. So on the client side, how do we figure out what they need?

Is, cuz there’s a difference between what they perceive that they need or I would assume that there’s a difference between what they perceive that they need from coaching and what they actually need from coaching. So tear that apart if I’ve got that

Jacquelyn Lane: wrong. No you’re great, man. You’re the perfect person to talk to because that’s it’s really interesting to hear what people express and when you read into it and see the patterns or even talk to someone’s HR leader, what the HR leader says that they need is different than sometimes what that executive says that they need. And so you’re right, perception does come into play here.

And so to go back just briefly to the difference between, men and women coaching at the highest levels. For example, some executives think, oh, I need someone who’s been in my shoes, who’s been in an executive themself and can advise me on, the situations that I’m facing. [00:08:00] And of course, if that’s what you’re looking for, if there have been more male executives who have turned coaches now you’re looking at a primarily male pool of coaches rather than at some of the female coaches who actually may be better at helping you navigate the interpersonal dynamics and relations.

Get those very highest levels that will, that will then help you get to that next level. And so that actually we might actually try to show you a very talented female coach at the highest level who can help you in those areas. Do they

William Tincup: do an, do they do an assessment? Is that how we is there an inventory or a way to figure out what they

Jacquelyn Lane: need?

Yeah, each company is different. Right now some companies do have really clear leadership competencies and behaviors that they’re assessing people on. A lot of companies it’s now far more common to use 360 assessments of various types. Sometimes those can be surveys and sometimes those can be based on live interviews.

But in any case, people are recognizing that, Lots of dimensions start to give us a little bit [00:09:00] more color. And so sometimes companies come to us with a, having done a lot of that pre-work and assessment and understanding what their executives really need. And sometimes they say, we don’t know.

We’re very open. Can you guide us? And that’s both of those cases work really well. It’s just slightly different. It’s just different styles and different ways of doing things. But we, the way we do it at a hundred coaches agency is we like to have a 30 minute call with either an HR leader or an executive and just talk through things with them, ask them some questions.

At this point, having talked to several hundred executives, we can start to see patterns that other people may not be able to see. And again, like you said, William, it’s really interesting to then hear what they perceive they need and then to be able to peel back one layer behind that and and apply a little bit of our own judgment about what we think they might actually really need.

And we try to give them at least three options of coaches that are qualified, but might show them a slightly different flavor of coaching and maybe even have a slightly different [00:10:00] area of expertise. And then it’s important for them to have those calls. And together with the coach, they’ll talk about some of the coaches will each have a conversation with them and share some of their perceptions and to make some suggestions for areas for growth.

And then the leader will decide which one is really the right fit for them. And I think it’s really important that leader makes the final call and feels ownership over their decision.

William Tincup: So when we get it right, What does that look like? Do we have analytics or, everyone’s gonna ask like ROI and things like that.

But basically there’s three ways a relationship could possibly kind work out between a client and a coach either really works out and it doesn’t work out. Or it’s neutral. And so let’s do both, let’s do both. The kinda the polarities of okay. We know it worked out.

What does that look like? And how does that get expressed back to the folks that are paying for this?

Jacquelyn Lane: This is a great question. And there’s constant new growth in the area [00:11:00] of measuring coaching outcomes. And that’s something that we look at a lot at the agency. And again, it’s hard to make sweeping generalizations because each situation is different.

So for a sales leader, for example, it’s very clear to see whether or not they’ve been successful. If the goal, let’s say, was to increase their. Business units productivity or grow their sales you can see those numbers quite clearly, but if someone’s in a role that’s more a enable value enabler role.

You have to get a little bit more creative with some of those metrics, and that’s the same as we see in assessments at, end of year performance reviews and the like. So figuring out what those assessments and what those metrics are going to be is a really important step in coaching, and that usually happens within the first month.

A good coach will help a leader get really clear. About figuring out what those metrics are and then really systematically addressing those so that you’re right. At the end of six months or a year, you can say very clearly, we have met our goals.[00:12:00] So for some people that might be yes, like a certain business unit metric or Certain number of tickets closed or whatever the case may be.

For some people it’s, getting to the next level. They wanna get a promotion or they’re being considered for succession to a C-suite or c e o role. And so whether or not they get that role is a sign of success for other people. Entrepreneurs, they’re looking to raise funding or have a successful exit.

And so looking at some of those metrics becomes really important. I love that, but I, there’s no hard and fast rules.

William Tincup: No. And every client’s company needs something different. Every right. Client needs something different cuz they might not think it’s, they might they might think it’s going swimmingly and maybe there’s some room for improvement, et cetera.

Then let’s go the opposite side. Okay. When a match doesn’t work, what, how do we know? That a match does not work. That a client and a coach just, not to put blame anywhere, it’s just, sometimes these things with best intentions that just don’t work out as well as we thought they would.

So when that [00:13:00] happens, what do we, how do we adjust?

Jacquelyn Lane: Yeah, absolutely. So I would say the earliest indicator that a mismatch has occurred is when either, either the client or the coach or both are feeling. Not energized and working together. Coaching should really feel like the best part of your week.

Yes, your coach is gonna be a healthy challenger. They’re going to push you and make you a little uncomfortable in some ways, but you should really enjoy the time together and be looking forward to the growth and the safe space that a coach provides. If that’s not the case for whatever reason, and it starts to feel more like a chore that’s an early sign that things may not be working out.

And that could be for a few reasons. It could be a personality mismatch, or it could just be that coaching’s not really the right intervention for you at this time. And those, I think that’s an early way to see, I would encourage people not to wait until six months or a [00:14:00] year has elapsed before you realize hey, this isn’t working out.

I would voice that concern as soon as possible, and a skilled coach will also be able to guide in that way, whether that’s changing the way that the engagement is structured or maybe saying, Hey, I, I do think it’s right for us to go our separate ways, and maybe there’s a better resource out there for you.

William Tincup: Love it. So what questions should folks ask when they’re thinking about executive coaching. Again, this is probably client and client company, when they’re thinking about going down the path, maybe they haven’t before, and they’ve never really invested heavily in this space. What are the questions that they should be asking in the buy side?

Jacquelyn Lane: Yeah, I think one of the most important things to ask especially if you’re looking for a coach, On your own and not working with an agency like hundred coaches agency is of course to ask about the experience and track record of that coach. You [00:15:00] want them to have a demonstrated track record of success working with leaders at your level with certain situations or similar situations.

And that’s a really good way to know and have confidence that this coach has seen these things and can guide you through those situations as well. We do think that of course it is helpful to work with an agency who can help essentially do a lot of that pre-work for you. And then you don’t have to be as focused on identifying whether this coach is a good coach or just looks like a good coach.

You can be focused instead on what feels like the right fit for me. And again, we recommend speaking with at least three different coaches in your coach search. It’s much like buying a house. It’s a big investment. You only do it a few times in your life. And you wanna be able, you wanna be with an experienced person who can guide you through that process, but also you don’t wanna just buy the first house you wanna look around and see what the options are and really get a sense for what’s out [00:16:00] there and what feels like the right home for you. And the same is true with coaching. Is it ultimately will come down to a feeling and it is a big investment, but it is also one of the best investments companies can make and helping their talent go further, creating better results for a company, retaining their leaders.

And so we do think it’s still really worthwhile. I had a

William Tincup: question really quickly cuz going backwards to outgrowing a coach or a coach outgrowing a client. Cuz I guess that, that could work both ways, right? How do how does a client deal with that? Like they feel like they’ve gotten.

All the advice out of someone whether or not it’s true or not, a lot of this is just perception, right? So if they’ve perceive that they’ve gotten every, all the value out of a particular coach, how do they move to another, a new coach?

Jacquelyn Lane: So you ask really great questions. William? I have to say that yeah, that’s a normal part of the process.

It’s, I think it would be the hope for most coaches that their [00:17:00] leader that they’re working with has really evolved and grown so much that they need something else. And so it, that is part of the process is being able to say, this has been a really wonderful engagement. I would say, most people find around the one year to two year mark tends to be a time where they feel like they’ve exhausted a lot of, Benefit from one resource and they might be looking for something different, be it, they’ve encountered a new challenge or a new era of growth for themselves.

And so yeah they’ll be looking for a different resource. I’ve certainly had several coaches over the course of my career as well, and it is a natural part of the process and your coach should be someone you should feel comfortable being able to voice those things with. And shouldn’t feel any hesitation in sharing that.

William Tincup: Some of it’s like therapy on some level. If, if it’s just not the right fit, it’s just not the right fit. You just gotta, you just gotta kinda own it and go, everyone’s got the best intentions here if you out, if you feel like you’ve, I keep putting that modifier on there.

If you feel like [00:18:00] you’ve outgrown, then just. Head into it and and talk with folks. Cause you might, or you might not have, but

Jacquelyn Lane: exactly. And much like therapy, just because one, there’s one bad fit, doesn’t mean therapy’s not for you. Oh, a hundred percent.

William Tincup: I. Personally, I think therapy should be mandatory, but agree.

You get your driver’s license, you have to go to therapy, period, end of story or to vote, you have to go to therapy. Period. End of story. Favorite customer story without brands or names or anything like that, but just something where you saw a client, that maybe was struggling with something and just you saw a kind of com complete

Jacquelyn Lane: turnaround.

Yeah. I’ll give, if I may, I have two quick examples. Sure. One example, I love the story of the, an uncoachable leader, someone who, thinks that they know it all and have been the board had enlisted a coach for someone and and he said I don’t need no coach the board should mind their own business.

I am, I’m running this company just fine. They hired me [00:19:00] and the coach said the board actually has the ability to fire you. So you might wanna listen to what they’re saying. And, that was the light bulb moment for him and he realized, oh I do need to get along with the board.

I do need to really hear what they’re saying and. Over the course of the next year, he had this just profound transformation really began to collaborate well with others, and became very open to the whole coaching process and achieved really extraordinary results. And this is a private equity backed company.

And of course the, they had a very successful exit. And it was just a really wonderful success story where everyone who worked at that leader saw the transformation in him and actually didn’t fear him the way that they used to. Now they really enjoyed and were excited to work with him, and I think that’s a really powerful story.

Another one, this one’s very recent, is someone who is already a very conscious leader. Running an amazing company, had seen that company through the financial crisis and, They were [00:20:00] looking at having to cut expenses. The company was almost on the verge of going under and he stood up in front of the company and gave this speech and said, companies can either be like Merry-go-round or rollercoasters and, Merry-go-round is fine.

It’s safe. You know where you’re are, you know where you’re going. But this company’s about to be a little bit more of a rollercoaster. We’ve fallen on hard times with the financial crisis and it’s gonna be a little scary, but we also believe in what we’re building here. No judgment, you can feel free to, to leave the company.

And we’ll pay your severance. And that’s totally fine. But if you wanna stay, we’re gonna be reducing everyone’s pay by 25% until we weather the storm, right? Only one person left the company. The rest stayed and took the 25% pay cut for six months. And and again, this leader had really galvanized the entire team through a very challenging situation.

And so this was how he was naturally, just amazing guy. But he came to us recently and said, How can I go even further? What am I see? What am I not seeing yet? How can I create an [00:21:00] even better company in an even better environment? And I think that’s the real, real coachable people realize that they can always be better.

They can always grow and learn in new ways. And I think that’s really amazing too, because this is already a very talented and successful leader. And yet he recognizes that with some coaching support he’ll go even further. So

William Tincup: the phrase, uncoachable, where does that come from?

Cuz I’ve heard that many times. Like this person’s un uncomfortable uncoachable is that they just don’t believe in coaching. They just, they just don’t believe in the concept of coaching or they’re. They don’t want to be vulnerable. Cause I think to some degree client and coach have to, figure that stuff out on their own.

But you’ve gotta be vulnerable. You’ve gotta actually say what you don’t know or, you’ve gotta be able to open to trying things a different way or listening to someone else’s experience, which is, some of it’s about vulnerability. So like what, what makes somebody

uncoachable? [00:22:00]

Jacquelyn Lane: Yeah, that’s a such a great point, William that’s exactly right.

It’s being hesitant to engage in the coaching process and I’ll mention that. Scott Osmond, the president of hundred coaches, myself and Marshall Goldsmith, who I mentioned earlier have all three of us have just finished writing the manuscript for a book called Becoming Coachable. Oh, cool.

And so we actually have been exploring this topic in detail and we’ve identified four, four key dimensions to coachability, which are feedback, accountability, action and change. And if you’re open and willing to embrace all four of those things, then you’re a coachable person. And part of the basis for this is my own experience being a collegiate rower.

I realized that people who were uncoachable or didn’t take feedback well, for example, it let’s say in the boat didn’t go as far as people who did take feedback and coaching well and and what’s funny is even some of those people who were quote, uncoachable or less coachable, were more gifted [00:23:00] athletes, but those more gifted athletes didn’t end up going as far as people who were less gifted, but more coachable.

And I think the same is true in the world of executive coaching, where if you’re willing to engage in that process, it will change you, it will grow you you’ll learn to engage with feedback in a really healthy way. And so it’s worth coming to a coaching engagement. Open and prepared for that process.

Drops,

William Tincup: Mike walks off stage. Jacqueline, thank you so much. I can’t wait to, for your book to come out. That sounds fascinating.

Jacquelyn Lane: Thank you so much. We’re really excited for it.

William Tincup: Absolutely. And thanks everyone for listening. Until next time.