Getting The Most From Your Admins With Hilani Ellis of Exceptional Admins

William Tincup:[00:00:00] This is William Tincup, and you’re listening to the Recruiting Daily podcast. Today, we have Hilani on from Exceptional Admins, and our topic is getting the most out of your admins. I’ve never had an admin, I’m going to go ahead and admit that publicly. So I’m actually really excited about the podcast because I’m going to learn some things here. Hilani, would you do us a favor and introduce yourself and exceptional admins? [00:01:00]

Hilani Ellis: Excellent. Yeah, William, thank you so much for having me and thank you for that disclosure. We can totally do teacher student here during our time together. Yeah, I’m the founder of Exceptional Admins and the company launched very soft in 2014 while I was serving.

As an executive and personal assistant to a private equity CEO here in Denver, where I happen to be based out of, I do work nationwide and the company just softly launched from there. People were asking for my assistance to help them find their. Assistant, they’re matched. There’s so much about this profession that leans into a primary need of synergy fit.

And fast Forward took the company full-time from a side hustle in 2017. And here we are in 2023. I’m in my seventh year. I’ve seen a lot. I’ve conducted over 150 searches, which is just. An honor to talk about, and it’s the uniqueness of having served in [00:02:00] the role. I started in the late nineties working for a celebrity before Slack, before the iPhone, before Teams, before ChatGPT, and really, paper and pencil and eraser in hand did so much to be of service in that space.

And I like to tell people when I’m on shows like this, so thank you so much, William, for having me. I’m excited to talk about this topic of administration. Thank you. I was put on this earth for this profession and it goes as far back as to when I was a little girl helping my teacher being very organized at home.

And so I’m looking forward to diving deep on the things of administration today. So thanks for having

William Tincup: me. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So why don’t we start with people like me? Somebody that’s, you get a search for somebody that’s maybe they’ve never done it or maybe they haven’t done it in a long time.

So what does that search look like?

Hilani Ellis: Yeah. It’s very interesting. I’m in my seventh year, so I had access to 2017, 2018, 2019, and then the last three [00:03:00] years. When I’m interacting with leaders and I’m honored that 95% of the business is referral based from when they either knew me as an administrative individual, or they’ve interacted with an executive who now has an admin, or they have, to your point, maybe had someone when they were at a large corporate office and they shared an admin.

And so someone who doesn’t have an admin, usually that first question is, do you think you actually? Should have this partnership. And I don’t want to use the word deserve, but do you believe you should have this partnership? And a lot of leaders often say, I don’t have enough work to go around. And I love to challenge that and say, there’s always work to delegate, especially when you’re in a very, purposeful role.

If it’s the CEO, director of capital raising and stuff like that, there’s always an opportunity to delegate, especially to someone who really likes to do that work, the minutiae. So the first question is to want to identify when you’re [00:04:00] on purpose, what those tasks are. And when you’re pulled off purpose, what are those tasks?

And I give a challenge after the first call to document for, which yes, it’s homework, which obviously they’re already time constrained. And so I’m asking them to do something and it’s just a short, and I say, just do it over the span of five days, commit to that, just like you would commit to losing the last five pounds or training for that triathlon.

And so they track and document the things that pull them. Off purpose, which then I’m a big believer and advocate for the minute your energy is shifting to the things that are off purpose, you get tense. And so we cover with executives that haven’t had someone before, just that mindset. and heightened awareness around those things because you do become robotic with doing it all, especially my founders who turned CEO and they have multiple employees.

And it really puts them in a place of realizing, one, I do [00:05:00] deserve and two, that partnership is going to be instrumental. in them doing more of their on purpose tasks, whereas for an administrative powerhouse, their on purpose tasks are the things that you should be delegating. So we talk first in that position of mindset, and we also get past the fact that many of them think I’m not big enough or, and I’ve worked with leaders.

In particular, a real estate broker that did 65 million in residential real estate a year, all the way to large global organizations that have 165 million asset under management. So really, across all roles of people doing things on purpose for their own mission, they do, quote have enough to delegate to bring in this kind of partnership.

William Tincup: What do you, where do you start? So first of all, I, in finance, I’m sure you know this, but in finance for the audience, there’s a financial formula called TVM, time, value, and money. And basically it goes something like this[00:06:00] the CEO can type a hundred words per minute. The secretary or the admin can type 10 words per minute, who should type the letter?

And it seems like if you did the math the CEO should but the CEO’s time, she or he’s time should be applied elsewhere. And so this construct of time value of money actually applies to everything, but in finance it’s something that you use to basically make sure that whatever position you have, you’re applying your time in the most kind of, in the most I don’t know the most ROI for your time.

So which begs the question, what are the first things that when you have a new admin, what are the first things that they should take over or what is it? Is it, and I say that like I know, but basically is it something where you start with a list and you go through the list or is it based on the person?

What is, what does that look like?

Hilani Ellis: How long does this episode go? Cause I got a lot. I’m just [00:07:00] kidding. We’ve got three hours. You’re good. Three hours. Okay. We’re Joe Rogan. Great. So it’s such a fantastic question. And when I’m talking to leaders, still using you a little bit as an example, as you said, you haven’t had one.

William Tincup: As you

Hilani Ellis: should. Okay, good. And that’s probably several that listen in your audience or someone shared it with someone that they know because they were just having a conversation. So I think the question is amazing, but I will say the question is hard to answer simply. In order to try to create some simplicity, here’s where it comes down to, and it goes back to the on and off purpose list.

So if you’re looking at the off purpose, and I really liked your typing example, by the way, quite extreme in the sense of the numbers and the output, but in the sense of where is that first relief valve? And for me, I often describe that transferring of knowledge. Is the first relief valve. So [00:08:00] inviting them to meetings, learning about stakeholders.

Some of my executives want to skip, and some of the powerful admins too, they don’t want to be in the first 365 days. They want to be at day 366. on day one. And so I actually talk about that often when I’m coaching the onboarding phase of a new partnership. So usually calendar management is a great place to start.

The administrative individual on their own can build their library of knowledge in just looking at the last six months of where their executive or plural executives have spent spending their time. Why is William sitting with Helani weekly? And that’s only been the last two months. There’s something there, right?

Why did William only meet with Steve once two months ago? And then maybe they move into the CRM. Maybe they move into contacts. Who is this Steve? Wow. There’s four Steve’s in the company. What do each of them do? And [00:09:00] the real first place is the transferring of knowledge, giving them A bit of free time.

I make the I’m not fully committed to this, but I do obvious, I do advise this and admin should start on a Wednesday. And that first three days is really the onboarding of, technology, getting their desk acclimated, writing out some certain stuff. And the executive actually doesn’t have access to them until that following Monday, hoping that they’re in town.

That way that they really can hit the ground running on that Monday. I’ve had executives hand over email on day one. Access to all folders, social security number, and just really like totally handed over the keys, which there’s nothing wrong with that, but they’re expecting that knowledge is very developed, and it isn’t.

And so the transferring of knowledge is really key, and the calendar is usually a really great place to start, right? It’s the library of information about, Gosh, why is the executive always having one hour meetings? First thing out the gate, we got to figure out, do they need to be an hour? Should they be 30 minutes?

And that’s where the strategic [00:10:00] mindset of the current day of an administrative individual. And if you’ll notice, I didn’t say executive assistant because there’s many titles within the family of administration. That calendar is awesome. Carbon copying your assistant so they start seeing stakeholders and also they need to see how you communicate in written form, whether you’re very curt, whether you’re a bit fluffy, then curt and then fluffy it’s a really great way for them to learn you.

And that’s really where that synergy component starts to thrive because once they become a copy of you, they’re anticipating your needs, which everyone loves it when that happens. Learn

William Tincup: I was about to say, where does intuition play and how, cause again executives are busy and I could see one of the excuses would be if they’re onboarding someone new is, I just don’t have time.

Hilani Ellis: Oh, geez. You’ve heard this one, right? Very much I’ve heard it 300 times because oftentimes clients who choose to pause the [00:11:00] objective They don’t have the time and I’ll make the exiting come and I’ll say, we should have been talking two years ago. I’d like to not talk to you two years from now.

And then they try to do the search on their own, which, everyone has the freedom to do that. So really great point. And I have this onboarding evolution philosophy that when you join a new role, it’s five zones and when you join a new role, you’re absolutely in the learning zone. And to your point of the executive not having enough time, the longer they delay the transferring of knowledge, the longer it will take for that anticipating.

And that executive decision making, which is ultimately what they would like from a very competent, intrinsically motivated individual. And traveling it now that we’re back to, almost 2019 travel levels, they’re out. I had a client, a candidate call. I had to check in with her. She’s been in her role six weeks.[00:12:00]

She’s we’re still trying to figure each other out. And I said, let’s just point out he’s been gone three weeks of the six. You’ve really only had three weeks with him. That’s right. Even though the time of the calendar says six, you’re really three weeks into your role, which to your question, the frustration and, or the hangup is what do I do?

You’re more intentional when you have that time. A lot of leaders say, I can’t do these one on one meetings. And I say, you’ll delay productivity. You’ll delay them becoming more stronger in their executive presence on your behalf. That time upfront, just if we’re going to lose weight, right? That time upfront, the intention about nutrition and sleep, if we’re not giving it the right intention and energy, then that whole success is delayed.

So success leads to significance. And so putting in the time and investing the time, it makes them start achieving success, which gives them significance in their role.

William Tincup: What’s the blend of or how do you, how does an admin deal with kind of the. Professional and [00:13:00] personal. So I can see all the professional stuff is all, I get that part of it.

But if, someone’s traveling, again, like you used a great example, someone’s traveling a bunch, there’s a bunch of stuff that’s falling through the cracks personally because, it’s just a part of travel, what’s an admin’s response to that type of stuff,

Hilani Ellis: yeah. You know what I’m talking about. You worked in Hollywood, oh yeah. I did. Yeah. And it’s blurred. And I, and the timing again, as the call I had yesterday and an hour call I had this morning with a woman who literally is all things for her executive and there is no solid line.

And I carried this philosophy when I was an administrative individual. I’m supporting the human who quite honestly isn’t at one moment in time, a dad and a wife, and then the other, an executive CEO of the firm. He’s all of that at any given time, right? Cause the daughter could text, the wife could pop in and it’s just they’re human.

So really coming to the human [00:14:00] component, it is very much a slippery slope though on. And this could probably be the top piece of advice to share with your audience. If you’re having very competent, motivated, and intelligent individual doing more than 50% of personal assisting, and they’re asking for that strategic work, That’s a problem.

Anytime a powered executive assistant is leaning into personal responsibilities and it’s seasonal. So right now we’re in the summer. Her executive’s gone for five weeks to his lake house. So she’s doing a lot of personal, right? But then when he comes back, there’s all the business stuff. So seasonality does play into this answer.

If a majority of the time they’re leaning into, yes, the dry cleaning, yes, personal travel, picking up your kids, that admin who wants the strategic value of what the word is executive assistant, not personal assistant, they’re not doing the mental [00:15:00] gymnastics that fuels them. And that fueling of the executive impact is really important.

When I’ve talked to personal assistants who are applying to executive assistant roles, they don’t have a decorum. For an executive office, they have it really well for a house manager role in a five to 10, 000 estate on five acres with a housekeeper, a chef, they have that verbal decorum, but an executive office decorum that’s not developed.

And so if we’re having, the office administrative individual, be it the titles executive assistant, doing a lot of personal. And they love it. Then you have no issues. But if they’re just doing it to get by, but they’re asking HR or other people like, Hey, I want to add more value in that lens of executive assisting.

That’s when it becomes blurred. I can

William Tincup: also see that could be a retention issue as well. If they’re not being challenged, then they want to go somewhere where they’re going to be challenged. Again, I can see the occasional, you said [00:16:00] 50 50, I could see it, again, just depending on the person.

If it’s the, I used to, a hundred years ago, I owned an ad agency, and I would tell people, Hey, listen, if I drive by on a Thursday night and the lights are on at 10 o’clock in the if that happens occasionally, that’s fine. Somebody had to work late, whatever, somebody pulled an all nighter, whatever.

But if that’s happening three, four, five times a week, that’s a problem. We’ve got a, we’ve got a staffing issue, we’ve got a client, it’s a indicative of something else that I need to fix. But every once in a while, it’s not a bad thing, every, occasionally we all need to pull those types of nights, but occasionally.

I guess is the kind of the thing that always stuck in my mindset, at least back then was just like, occasionally, it’s not a bad thing. And if it never happens, that’s fine. You can handle all the client work in a day. Great. What, let’s do some do’s and don’ts for both the executive assistant as well as the the executive.

What are Some [00:17:00] do’s

Hilani Ellis: and don’ts, yeah. What are some do’s and don’ts? We’ll go, and this is so generalized, and I often am known, yeah, often am known for saying no two roles and no two CEOs are alike. I would say from the executive side, when, do not. Not have your one on ones so that’s definitely a big thing that I often put a lot of emphasis behind.

Again, leaning into the wisdom given just a bit ago of like that transferring of knowledge and that transferring knowledge never ends, even in the learning zone of the onboarding of the new person, especially when they’re not in meetings with you because maybe they’re doing other things. Having those one on ones, which I will say for the executive that hears that, Oftentimes the argument I hear is they’re not productive.

Then for the assistant, don’t go into a one on one sloppy. So this actually applies to both. And the one on one meeting I have a phrase I like to use called anchors for the [00:18:00] admin and the executive. And when they have like common vocabulary, it’s really powerful because it takes them that much farther in their productivity.

So the executive would say, what are our anchors for this week? And the assistant knows exactly what that means. The assistant would have. And I’m going that we have already prepared to focus on categories based on what their company’s working on, the executive is personally working on and what those anchors are that keep them intentional throughout the week.

So for the admin side, don’t go in irresponsible with your to do list. Be more intentional and more creative for the executive because those meetings are unproductive leaning into making them productive so that. You have them. I hear time and time again, I have at least 800 calls a year where the assistants say, I’m like, what’s going on?

Why are you looking? The executive doesn’t give me time. I don’t have the opportunity to add more value. So I’ve hit the ceiling, Kalani. And it is both sides on that. So don’t not have those meetings. Secondarily. [00:19:00] If you have a very motivated professional, this is to the executive, and you’re giving them a lot of surface level, task rabbit work, to your point about retention, you may lose them.

This question is powerful for HR. What is something that you see that you would like to have more access to? And asking that of the assistant. Because turnover for a 45, 000 employee is 15, 000 and that’s 2019 data. So if we’re going to lose the assistant who’s clearly making more than 45K, take the time now to invest the energy, assuming the synergy is there and ask them, what would you like to do more of?

So don’t deny them the opportunity to take on more. That would be the other don’t. For the assistant, don’t build up resentment. When you haven’t asked, it’s very easy for the admin side to start building resentment like I’m not getting access to more and I often [00:20:00] positively challenge. My audience knows I bring up challenging questions, thought provoking.

Did you ask? No. And then there’s this layer of excuse and here’s the issue for the admins. Don’t hold yourself to a lower level because you haven’t invested in your verbal development. I’m very big on the vocabulary of how are you asking? This was a call from earlier today. I’m like, you need to use language that he uses when he’s doing an M& A.

Capital raising. What’s the asset value? And she’s Oh my gosh, I never thought I’d go those words speak to him. And so how do you speak at his level? And so don’t hold yourself lower or a big argument in the admin family is using the word just an executive assistant. That’s a big naughty word here at the company, exceptional admins, really challenge yourself to go one step further in preparing yourself for the ask.

And the ask could be, I just want to join the budget meetings because I want to hear how the company raises increases revenue and also how we might be spending a lot. So I can think about just from a strategic. Side of what I’m [00:21:00] doing for you and how I’m aware of what’s going on. I don’t wanna talk in the meetings, but I just wanna be in those meetings.

So oftentimes they don’t ask. And so stop not asking and start figuring out how to have some of your asks verbally expressed.

William Tincup: So two things. One is I wanted to ask you about poaching. So if I’m Yeah. In an office environment. And I see a, just a wonderful executive admin, and. I could start all over.

And and although this person understands the business, they know what we do. It seems like I could get there faster. What, how do you coach your executive admins through those types of Those types of conversations when someone approaches them, especially within the firm, outside the firm.

I was just

Hilani Ellis: going to say within the firm. Yeah. Yeah. Just to be clear. Yeah. Yeah.

William Tincup: Inside the firm, I can see it as a really interesting shortcut.

Hilani Ellis: It’s interesting because career pathing is getting a lot of airtime right now. So if we were to be very specific. and making this question [00:22:00] cover today in 2023.

That’s beautiful. Assuming that the candidate that’s being, or the employee that’s being poached is looking for that sort of next thing. I think it’s beautiful. I would lean in on the executive or even HR that could go to that person because the executive said, Hey, I like the style of so and having that initial

I think that’s a total open door here for the poaching, or actually what I thought was bias. And it’s not in line with the other individual. So that first kind of question that is universal. Quite off across the board for all employees is, what are you doing that you really love? And what’s something that we’re doing that you want to get your thumbprint on?

And if they describe something, and quite honestly, admins might be taken aback by that not know how to answer that out the gate because they want to prepare. They want to be seen as [00:23:00] perfect. And so there’s all those other things that we could tangent on. But giving them the space to say, Hey, you don’t have to tell me about it now, but I’m just curious to learn more.

Or, what are your ambitions here at the company? What’s your favorite thing that we do? The poaching piece, I’m for it. I think it’s great. It’s obviously a great cost saving tool. But then that now seats empty. So what do you do with that? Which is what comes up often that one admin supports multiple people.

And I have a two to one ratio rule because of the fact that burnout happens, resentment starts to develop, and then the individual who could be the admin is overextended and then they’re really playing in a reactive state, which is not very productive and efficient. And they really need to be in, I’m sorry, a reactive state where they need to be proactive on a regular basis.

I

William Tincup: also see the two executives wondering where the loyalties lie on some level, like where my priorities, your, the other person’s priorities, whose priorities at the end of the day, it’s [00:24:00] five o’clock and both priorities presented. Who are you gonna take care of?

Hilani Ellis: Yeah. That, so it’s interesting I talk about that when I get a call and I’ll say, who’s this new person going to support until this, five people?

Oh, yeah. And to make a little bit of a joke, I’m like who’s the neediest? Is it you ? And they chuckle as you’re laughing now, . And so when I make, and. When my recommendation shifts is if it’s a CFO, a chief legal, and then the CEO, we all know, and I say this with all due respect, like the CEO is going to need the most.

Sure. The legal is pretty independent. The CFO lives in, columns and rows and is pretty independent, that three to one is not. But if you get a marketing officer, biz dev, and a CEO no, they all need their own. That would just be really hard. And so that’s where just an if then theory, which I talk about when I do coaching with admins is, if this happens, then what do you do?

And so it would need to be which does dilute it. Obviously [00:25:00] the impact because if both executives with the one assistant think that they’re amazing and that, their needs come over the other, that is where a three way conversation meeting occurs because the, and this is where I lean into the assistant, speak up.

You want to tell them you want to add 100% value to all the asks of you, and you can’t when there’s competing priorities or lack of knowledge to understand the significance behind the request and how that helps the business goals, which is why circling back to anchors, when those anchors are identified in the beginning, if the second of two executives anchors are more important, then because of the identification of the anchors, the other executive is okay, those, that person’s anchors are a little bit stronger this week, seasonality, than mine, that individual this week is a priority.

And I’m secondary and it’s just really having that open candor which leans into the anchors that really puts the intentionality for the workload for the week so that priority thing doesn’t become, an unspoken [00:26:00] issue. So

William Tincup: how do you coach the concept of what, what is success to both the executive and the executive admin?

What does success look

Hilani Ellis: like?

William Tincup: Yeah, what does it look like? Because I would assume that’s different for everybody. Oh gosh, yeah. So again, so that someone knows both the executive and the EA knows that they’re being successful. This comes up.

Hilani Ellis: So often, because admins who aren’t getting those one on ones, or even like a six month review check in they do try to lean into, no news is good news, but at the same time, just like a CEO wants to land that deal, it is a compliment that they’re a mover and a shaker.

It’s an unspoken wow, you’re really good at what you do. And so what success looks and I do a lot of this work from the admin side, you need to create your definition. You need to learn how to create personal definitions to different things [00:27:00] that you’re working on. For the comment made earlier, success to significance, that meeting could not have happened or that private flight with five employees to New York City to be in front of that biggest investor could not have happened.

If it weren’t for you, and because we get stuck in the robotic nature of scheduling, travel, booking, intentionality with, PowerPoint decks, we forget that success of that thing happening is your significance in that if you weren’t there, yeah, it probably could have happened, but maybe things would have been forgotten or it would have only been like a B plus output.

So if you want to be an A player, you want to think about what success looks like for you and for the executive. When they start to anticipate your needs, when they’re drafting emails for you and you only have to spend 30 seconds to review it, change one word and hit send. That is success because there’s this common mindset.

There’s this common cadence [00:28:00] that everyone is just. A well oiled machine when your assistant can’t draft an email for you. And granted, there has to be the right amount of time in the relationship for that to actually be successful, but you want to work towards that, right? So then, Hey, our next step of what success looks like is just draft a few emails for me.

Let’s see where you’re at in my writing style. And creating kind of some of these markers of what should we do next? Hey, we’re not color coding the calendar right now. I was at lunch with so and they said they do, and it makes them have a different sense about how their day is going to unfold.

Let’s start that. So I would say success is to reach significance through recognizing that even the smallest task of a calendar activity happened because of you, that trip, because of you, working on that chart for that PowerPoint on behalf of your executive, is a successful moment because your executive didn’t have to do it.

And then for the executive, success looks like transferring that knowledge, giving them some [00:29:00] autonomy. Knowing that failure is 50% possible, but failure is where the learning occurs. And I believe that both sides have a lot of opportunity to create some personal definitions around what success looks like for their unique relationship.

William Tincup: Last thing I got to ask is the concept of busy, you know what I’m saying, you’ve done this, you’ve seen this.

Hilani Ellis: I have an episode called, yeah, I have a podcast and the episode’s called Busy Badge. So yeah, keep going.

William Tincup: So how do you get your, how do you coach your EAs around, Hey, listen, you can be busy, but not necessarily valuable, right?

Or vice versa, right? You can be valuable and not busy. So cause it seems like they can be in it.

Hilani Ellis: And I’m racking my brain because I did a training session not too long ago and this came up and it was with admins and they’re like, I’m tired of saying I’m busy and I’m so bummed I don’t have a right [00:30:00] now the answer for it. Maybe it’ll come to me as I’m thinking. The busy badge, it’s, it, both are guilty, right?

The executive and the assistant. We are in a society where busy creates a status level. We all hold our phones so that we quote, look like we’re needed, but yet we’re ready. I would say that coaching on the admin side, I transfer, I position away from the busy to in any given day. How reactive are you and how proactive are you?

And I have a leader who’s in Portland, Maine, and his biggest goal for the next 12 months, which was a heavy thing that we talked about during the search for his assistant. He’s this person has got to be proactive because I need to be around that influence. If they’re reactive like me, Helani. We’re both going to be set up for failure to reach the goal that I have as a leader.

So thinking about how fast did you hit send and now there’s a typo, [00:31:00] quote, too busy to check yourself. And so I’ve got this a really big thing that I spill into when I do speaking for leadership teams is the power of 60 seconds. If I asked you to do a one minute plank 20 seconds in, you’d be like, Oh my gosh.

How much longer? And I’d say 40 more seconds or even a minute of burpees, right? And whatever’s most painful for you in the sense of holding a position or fast moving for 60 seconds. We all have 60 seconds to give away. And so the counter advice is use more time. And so with that busy component, use more time to check yourself because there’s nothing, the post error guilt that people carry, both leaders and admins.

It lasts longer than 60 seconds. You sent the email to the wrong Steve or Julie, and now you’ve got to send the apology, hopefully get Outlook to, return the email, and usually that’s only 2% successful. And the post error gill [00:32:00] is always the worst, and it lasts longer than the 60 seconds on the front end.

When they’re talking about just the, quote, adopting the exterior society of busy is great. I often say, if you thought about your day to day, what would you give yourself as a score? They’re like maybe three stars because I was constantly busy. I was reactive. I forgot to do this. I forgot to do that.

So a big thing here at Exceptional Admins is what’s your personal brand identity? Is your personal brand identity when other people are going to comment about you, wow, she’s always busy. Does that mean it’s good or is that negative? She’s always so proactive. So really taking that mindset shift from, do you want to be labeled as someone busy?

Do you want to be labeled as someone who’s proactive? And I’m not able to think of that great piece of wisdom I got from that session training session. It’s it’s something that I think we all need to move away from. Being busy does not tell us, Tim Ferriss is saying what the four hour work week, he’s not busy and he’s making that successful.[00:33:00]

So being busy does not justify that or express that you’re. Really busy and really important. So if we really try to get away from that, so the transition is, are you proactive or reactive? And usually people aren’t happy to say that they’re reactive. So I’m like what’s the alternative? And they’ll say it’s proactive.

So that mindset shift and included with vocabulary shift is something I like to promote on a regular basis.

William Tincup: Drops mic, walks off stage. Honey, this has been absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on

Hilani Ellis: the show. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, William. I appreciate it. Absolutely. And

William Tincup: thanks for everyone listening.

Until next time.