The gag is simple: One magic wand, one magic wish. What would you do to change the Talent Acquisition landscape to make it better? We were at HR Tech 2022 asking industry leaders about their opinions on this crazy industry and how to improve it.

Guest Jonathan Kestenbaum from AMS talks with William Tincup about how the key to sourcing in the future is building really engaged talent communities. He’d use his magic wand to find ways to keep candidates engaged – outside of the job you’re trying to place them in.

Jonathan doesn’t like all the noise. Talent communities need to be built better, and built around a set of interests. You don’t want to react to a job opening, we should be fostering a community ahead of time to prepare for when it happens.

Our other esteemed guest Jeanette Leeds, on the other hand, is about the hourly worker. She wants a mobile friendly and fast environment for these candidates to find their own roles.  We have to acknowledge that we live in a fast paced society and our hiring process should follow suit.

This HR Tech 2022 series was hosted and brought to you by our friends and partners at Joveo!

Jonathan Kestenbaum and Jeanette Leeds

Introduction  (00:01):

You’re listening to the Recruiting Daily Podcast. We’re recording from HR Tech in Vegas. Thanks to our friends and partners at Joveo. We are talking to some of the best minds in HR and business, and digging into the most pressing issues in the workplace, so you don’t have to. Here’s your host, William Tincup.

William Tincup (00:19):

Ladies and gentlemen, this is William Tincup. And we are broadcasting live from Joveo’s booth at HR Tech. We have two wonderful people on, two friends of Recruiting Daily’s and mine personally. So, Jonathan, won’t you start. I’m going to hand you a magic wand, and I’m going to ask you, if you could fix anything in talent sourcing, what would you fix?

Jonathan Kestenbaum (00:41):

I’ll introduce myself quickly, first. Jon Kestenbaum. I’m the managing director of tech strategy and partners at AMS. If I had a magic wand, and I actually do have a magic wand in my hand right now…

William Tincup (00:53):

Yes, you do.

Jonathan Kestenbaum (00:53):

… And I’m going to use it. What’s one thing that I would transform in talent sourcing? So, I think that as the internet continues to enter the recruitment space broadly, the noise is going to get really loud. It’s going to be really, really hard for candidates and for companies to get the interest of candidates. And so, I think the key to sourcing in the future is building really engaged talent communities. So, I think that having a deep and intimate focus on building an engaged, focused talent community and coming up with ways to keep them engaged outside of just the job that you’re trying to sell them is something that needs to be fixed, that needs to be scaled, that someone should focus on.

William Tincup (01:36):

So, a relentless pursuit of communicating, and making sure you’re putting relevant content in front of them all the time.

Jonathan Kestenbaum (01:42):

Yeah. And I think building community, just not building community for the sake of selling them a job-

William Tincup (01:46):

Right. Right.

Jonathan Kestenbaum (01:47):

… But building community around a set of interests, and using that community when you’re ready to get your jobs in front of them.

William Tincup (01:54):

Because you’re really trying to build them up, not necessarily sell the company or the job. It’s building them up, and helping them understand kind of how the world works, and where they fit, whether or not it’s at that company, etc.

Jonathan Kestenbaum (02:04):

And be their talent agent throughout their career. Keep engaged with them.

William Tincup (02:08):

Oh, I love that.

Jonathan Kestenbaum (02:08):

Move them to their next company. So, it makes you less of a transactional sourcer, and someone who can be a strategic talent guide, almost like a talent agent for a candidate.

William Tincup (02:20):

Love it.

Jeanette, would you do us a favor and introduce yourself?

Jeanette Leeds (02:24):

Absolutely. I’m Jeanette Leeds. I’m the managing director of Hourly by AMS at AMS. [inaudible 00:02:32]

William Tincup (02:32):

By the way, it’s a wonderful product. Okay. So, I’m going to hand you a magic wand…

Jeanette Leeds (02:38):

Love it.

William Tincup (02:38):

… If you could change anything in talent sourcing, what would you change?

Jeanette Leeds (02:42):

So, I’m always thinking about hourly workers these days.

William Tincup (02:46):


Jeanette Leeds (02:46):

So, to me if we can make it from a candidate perspective where they’re like, “Hey, I need a job tomorrow.” Right?

William Tincup (02:53):

Right. Right.

Jeanette Leeds (02:53):

Because it’s all about speed, fit… Just magically wave that where they can just go on to wherever and just have those job offers…

William Tincup (03:02):

That’s right.

Jeanette Leeds (03:03):

… Right instantly.

William Tincup (03:04):

So, mobile friendly… Mobile

Jeanette Leeds (03:06):

Mobile friendly…

William Tincup (03:07):


Jeanette Leeds (03:08):

… Super fast-

William Tincup (03:09):


Jeanette Leeds (03:09):

… So, they can start working.

William Tincup (03:12):

Are you thinking about, because historically we’ve thought about resumes or LinkedIn profiles…

Jeanette Leeds (03:17):


William Tincup (03:17):

Do we think that way with Hourly?

Jeanette Leeds (03:18):


William Tincup (03:18):


Jeanette Leeds (03:19):

This is like… Yeah. It’s not even about that.

William Tincup (03:21):


Jeanette Leeds (03:22):

Right? It’s in a lot of these roles. So, it’s an interesting piece, if you combine that with thinking about what Jonathan said with the talent communities.

William Tincup (03:29):


Jeanette Leeds (03:30):

It’s… There’s something really interesting there, because someone’s like, “Hey, I want to… I’m unhappy. I want to go to this next gig.” Right?

William Tincup (03:36):


Jeanette Leeds (03:37):

If they’ve been engaging for a while… An instant job, and how do they go somewhere to just get that quickly? And I don’t know. Right?

Jonathan Kestenbaum (03:48):

They have to have a magic wand.

William Tincup (03:49):

They have to have a magic wand.

Jeanette Leeds (03:50):

To me, it’s a magical thing. And I don’t know. No one’s solved it. But that piece would be incredible and solve this-

William Tincup (03:56):

Especially for that community. Because-

Jeanette Leeds (03:56):

… For that community.

William Tincup (03:58):

… We’re in an HR Tech-

Jeanette Leeds (04:02):


William Tincup (04:02):

… Conference. 500 vendors, [inaudible 00:04:03]. How many of them are actually focused on hourly workers?

Jeanette Leeds (04:05):


Jonathan Kestenbaum (04:05):

I think we just started a new company called Magic Wand.

William Tincup (04:08):

Jeanette Leeds (04:10):

Love it. Done. Let’s get the URL.

William Tincup (04:11):

Thank you both. I know how busy you are. But thank you both for coming by. Appreciate you.

Jonathan Kestenbaum (04:15):

Thanks for having us.

Jeanette Leeds (04:16):

Thank you so much.

William Tincup (04:17):


Speaker 5 (04:17):

You’ve been listening to the Recruiting Daily podcast, live at HR Tech, graciously sponsored by Joveo. For all other HR, recruiting, and sourcing news, check out

The RecruitingDaily Podcast

William Tincup

William is the President & Editor-at-Large of RecruitingDaily. At the intersection of HR and technology, he’s a writer, speaker, advisor, consultant, investor, storyteller & teacher. He's been writing about HR and Recruiting related issues for longer than he cares to disclose. William serves on the Board of Advisors / Board of Directors for 20+ HR technology startups. William is a graduate of the University of Alabama at Birmingham with a BA in Art History. He also earned an MA in American Indian Studies from the University of Arizona and an MBA from Case Western Reserve University.


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