Mike "Batman" Cohen
Founder https://www.waynetechnologiesinc.com

Mike “Batman” Cohen is the Founder of Wayne Technologies, a recruitment training and search firm with expertise in: Contract Recruiting, RPO, Contingent Recruiting, and Retained Search models. Mike has over a decade of experience placing technologists, recruiters, and business development professionals; and has conducted trainings for both Corporate and Agency Recruiters. He contributes articles to SourceCon, has a chair in the Program Committee with ATAP, helps run SourceHouston, and is a Brand Ambassador for ERE.


In Today’s Podcast

In this episode, we go all out with Michael “Batman” Cohen on how a company can invest in employees to ensure they (the employee) is successful. He reveals the “secret sauce” to empowering, engaging, and retaining employees.

 We go deep on the 8 key ingredients:

      1.  Being authentic: Bring the human component to work
      2.  Having a flexible work environment
      3.  Taking care of your team (emotionally)
      4.  Servicing their higher interests, outside of the workplace
      5.  Focusing on personal and cultural relationships
      6.  Letting people grow
      7.  How to reward and recognize the team
      8.  How to listen


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Listening Time: 43 minutes

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Music:      School is in session. This is RecruitingDaily’s Sourcing School Podcast. Real talk about recruiting, sourcing and cyber sleuthing. Hot takes on sourcing tools, recruiting tech, and anything we want to talk about with no filter. It’s time to level up and put your sourcing pants on. Here’s your dudes, Ryan Leary and Brian Fink.

Brian Fink:   Welcome to Sourcing School with your host, Ryan Leary and Brian Fink. I have shouted out Ryan Leary first, this is the second time in a row that I have been able to give him the proper introduction. The person that we are going to be speaking with today, person who is joining us, probably needs no introduction and that is Michael Batman Cohen. One of the pre-eminent sourcers in the sphere, somebody who is swimming in and out of the ether of new things, old things, kind of merging different technologies together. I’m really excited that I get to call him one of my best friends. I’m also excited that my daughter, Maddie, doesn’t take a lot of phone calls from people, but if Batman is on the phone, she wants to talk to him and tell him what’s going on in school. I want to welcome my friend, Michael Batman Cohen, to the show. What is going on Batman?

Michael Batman :      What is up, hey Brian, hey Ryan. Oh, that’s fun. I like that, I’m going to make use of that for the next hour. Hey guys, how are we doing this morning?

Ryan Leary:   All good my man. How have you been?

Michael Batman :      Dude, I am good, crazy busy, like I’m sure most of the people in our space are right now. But blessed and happy and all the goodness.

Brian Fink:   Mike, you talk about people being busy this is the end of the year where a lot of people, I feel like a lot of people kind of shut down because hiring managers aren’t being responsive, but every conversation that you and I have, it is busier and busier for both of us. Is that… What do you predicate that to? What do you attribute it to?

Michael Batman :      Yeah. I think as we’re coming out of the whole COVID thing, although now I say that and I’m like, shit! We’re actually heading back in the wrong direction, but it regard, I’m not getting into that. I think one is recovery from last year still. I think while recruiters had a tough go of things last year, the bottom line is it impacted everybody within an organization, right? They’re like marketing folks were let go and sales and accounting. And so replacing recruiters is one person to replace but then recruiters are responsible for replacing all of the people who left. So it’s like a multiplier effect and now companies are realizing or still realizing, holy crap, we need folks. It is probably one of the craziest times to be a recruiter right now, honestly.

Brian Fink:   Awesome. I want to get into that a little bit later because I’ve got a question kind of a gotcha that I want to follow up with that for you because I want to talk about the state of sourcing today. Because you clearly have your pulse on it. You are… I make the joke that I’m not internationally known, but I’ve been known to rock the microphone. You are internationally known. I think that you have… There’s a sourcing conference that’s coming up in Pakistan, when is that?

Michael Batman :      That is January 13th, the Pakistani Sourcing Summit. It’s going to be a blast. I’m looking forward to it.

Brian Fink:   Now are you keynoting at that event or you just showing up for shits and GS?

Michael Batman :      Yeah. That would’ve… The S and Gs of that would’ve been a really expensive long flight S and GS. No, I’m actually doing the keynote talk for that, which is great. And I’m making it something really interesting, right. So you know this already, right? If anybody’s listening and doesn’t know this, Brian is one of my best friends and he and I talk if not every day then every other day. So you know this already, but I actually have my dad coming with me, who’s 77 and he and I have never just taken it like a vacation, just he and I. So we’re turning it into a combination of me speaking at said conference. And then also he and I are going to take some time there and then head over to India as well.

Brian Fink:   You bring up your dad, Bruce Wayne, didn’t have the best relationship with his father because it was cut short. Who is Batman? What’s the origin story because you’re Michael Batman Cohen. You’ve got Batman paraphernalia all throughout the house. Why are you Batman?

Michael Batman :      Yeah. You… I was like how do you know I have it all throughout the house? Oh yeah, you stayed here. So yeah. So this started and I’ve shared this a bit so if you’ve heard it, bear with me. So this started, well like about seven years ago actually. Yeah. Right around six and a half, seven years ago. I was looking for… Six years ago. Yeah. Unimportant. It was about six years ago. I was working for a smaller boutique staffing agency in New York and had some pretty cool clients, right? I had picked up Spotify as a client and was one of the first recruiters I’d worked with in a while. And it really started getting into that tech scene, the smaller cooler company tech scene. And I wanted to brand, for me, right? Cool if you want to work with my company, it’s great.

Michael Batman :      But I wanted people to want to know me and my name is, Michael Cohen, which Cohen is one of the most common Jewish last names in the world. Also I’m not Jewish, also it’s not a real last name it got changed at Ellis island because of a language barrier. And Michael is one of the most common first names, at least in this country. And so I was like, great job, mom and dad. So branding wasn’t going to work real well for me already. And then this is right around the time Trump was running for office and I’m not sure if anybody remembers, but he had a lawyer who had done some interviews that were, we’ll use the phrase crass. And so his name was also Michael Cohen. And so I’m never appearing on the front page of Google as Michael Cohen, unless I do something I don’t want to appear on the front page for.

Michael Batman :      So I started thinking through and what can I do for branding? And I used to watch the Batman cartoon as a kid. My parents didn’t really encourage comic book reading which is sad. I watched South Park but not read comic books, so explain that to me. And I read my first comic book when I was 19 and it was Batman:    Long Halloween, which if anybody is interested, they just came out with a cartoon two-part movie on HBOMax and they just made a run, a comic book run, released a part two, which is great. Thank you, Jason Roberts, again total shout out. He owns a comic book store in Dallas and he is awesome and brought me that copy. And so when I first read Batman, I kind of fell in love with the idea of the character of somebody whose prowess, preparedness, and savvy was their superpower, right?

Michael Batman :      And the dichotomy between the real person underneath and the person who is the alias for the other and realizing that he was kind of a juxtaposition compared to the other superheroes and the psychology of the story for me really hit it off. And so I was like, all right, that’d be cool branding. He also started in the thirties as the world’s greatest detective, right? It’s how he got his start in the comic book world. And people don’t know this DC Comics, which is that whole universe, right? Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, Arrow, Aquaman, Flash, that’s named detective comics, that’s literally after Batman, the story arc. So I literally just went for it. The company supported me at the time. Like, “If you’re going to do it, just jump in with both feet.” And I was like, “Alrighty.” And it stuck. So like, all that’s the long answer, the short answer is like “Where the Batman moniker came from?” I gave it to myself.

Ryan Leary:   So Batman tell me what is Wayne Tech? What do you guys do?

Michael Batman :      Yeah, besides a total homage to DC Comics and Bruce Wayne’s company, Wayne Enterprises. So we are a sourcing on demand company. We have come up with a new way of doing sourcing that’s deliverables based. And it’s something that, it takes a little wrapping of your head around because it’s not that, we want to pay somebody for 40 hours of work. My philosophy is, I don’t want you to pay me hourly, because that’s encouraging me to take my time doing things otherwise I make less money instead I want you to pay for deliverable. And so companies come to us and hire us on contract.

Michael Batman :      And we basically run one, what we call sprint every week, where we’re delivering a list of candidates with all of their data and everything. We share all of our search strings and platforms we used, we share every single profile we looked at and then we actually do messaging outreach from our client domain. So it looks like we work there and just make the intros as they come in to the client. So it’s not that like contingency based or you got to think of every hire you make. And it’s not hourly, where you’re wondering, what am I going to get at the end of this week? You know every Friday, this is exactly what you’re going to get week and week out.

Brian Fink:   That’s a great origin story. I’ve heard it before, but I felt that everybody who’s out there kind of wonders, who’s this Batman guy? Kind of like I was wondering who this Batman guy was the first time I got an email from this Batman guy. And it was like-

Michael Batman :      Wait, the first time or the second time?

Brian Fink:   No, no, no. The first time I was like, “Who’s this guy? What’s going on here?” Like this doesn’t make any sense to me. I was like, I’m Brian Fink, but I don’t go by Brian Fink Think even though Steve Levy has referred to me as Fink Think before, shout out to Steve, that’s-

Ryan Leary:   It took a while am not going to lie. It did take a while to call, to feel comfortable calling you Batman.

Michael Batman :      Yeah. I totally get it.

Ryan Leary:   It was like a weird thing, but it works. It works. Now it’s kind of… I don’t think I’ve ever called you Mike or Michael. Or I have, but this is probably day one, day one and a half I was like, yo Batman, it doesn’t feel right calling you Michael now.

Michael Batman :      Yeah. I mean, Brian-

Ryan Leary:   That’s interesting.

Michael Batman :      … Brian, yeah. Brian, literally, as I’ve mentioned one of my best friends, we talk all the time. He calls me Batman and Maddie refers to me as uncle Batman. I refer to her as my niece and super funny story. Y’all laugh listening to this. Maddie was at a birthday party and somebody had a Batman lunchbox and came up, this boy came up to Maddie, and sorry, Brian, I’m stealing your own daughter’s story on this. And he came up and he made a comment around like, “Oh yeah, I love Batman.” And Maddie without even looking up or acknowledging it just goes, “Yeah, I know him. He stayed at our house.” That kid was just flabbergasted, like “You know Batman?” She’s like, “Yeah.” So, thanks for that. I appreciated that.

Brian Fink:   Yeah. She knows how to find Batman on the phone, right? She knows that it’s Batman wearing his scuba shirt, I mean his scuba gear. Scuba is something that you’re really into. How did that start?

Michael Batman :      Dude, I got certified when I was 13. My dad took me scuba diving when I was in Maui initially when I was 12 and I loved it. I mean, I got a pretty special first time out, we saw like a sea turtle whose shell was, not exaggerating, five, five and a half feet long. My brother’s like, ” [inaudible 00:   12:   27] as big as a Volkswagen beetle.” was like, “No, no, bro. It wasn’t.” But it was like five and a half feet long, it was huge. And we saw a squid swimming by at some point, a little baby squid. And my dad signaled for the dive master to grab it and splat it on my face mask, which by the way, if you’re a scuba diver super unsafe, don’t do that particularly to a 12 year old, his first time scuba diving.

Michael Batman :      But we still have that picture saved, of me with a squid on my face. And you can see like the tentacles in my ears and shit like that. And so that just… Dude, I loved it, I got certified. And then [Crystal 00:   13:   03], my wife is a water baby. And so on our honeymoon, she got certified and the second she hit the ocean, scuba diving, that was it for her. She’s like, this is what I want to do. So that’s our thing.

Brian Fink:   Awesome sauce. All right. So you brought up Crystal and I think Crystal’s awesome. Maybe we should have her on another podcast at another time. That’d be interesting because Crystal does a… You’re very thought provoking and you’re very thorough about what you do, but I feel like Crystal does more research than you do.

Michael Batman :      Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Cris… So Crystal is not as polarizing. She’s always worked for large corporate companies, fortune 500 companies, she’s insanely strategic and planning, right? She does sales strategy, sales enablement and management. And she knows how to deal with teams and bureaucracy and consulting with clients and getting them on their page and to buy into their product. And I am not that, you know me, I am very polarizing and I don’t give a shit what people think. Which is why I’m commercially unemployable also. So it’s a good trade off.

Brian Fink:   Actually. You mentioned sales enablement that actually brings me to maybe 2022 predictions. I’ve always found that there are fair amount of sales §enablement tools that lead their way into recruiting. Like for instance, you were a big proponent of the Interseller, right? You had the socks, you were living it, you were breathing it. That was a sales enablement tool.

Michael Batman :      Yeah. Started actually, Steven Lu, the founder, they just sold to Greenhouse, so congrats Steven on that again, dude you deserve it. You’re awesome. Started and created the code for Interseller as just his own need for a company he’d founded with a buddy of his to do sales outreach. And that’s literally how Interseller came about. And then I think one of his clients, it may have been square, but I don’t want to throw that out there as a guarantee. One of his clients said like, “Oh hey, this is awesome. Can I have access to this?” And it was just code. So he is like, “Okay.” And so he put like a UI around it and everything and boom there’s Interseller and five years later, bullshit six or seven years later selling to greenhouse.

Brian Fink:   Yeah. But that’s a tool that started as a sales enablement tool and then it went into recruiting and now it’s owned by a really awesome applicant tracking system. Question I would have for you is, do you see any other sales enablement tools that are out there in the ether that could be used for… Like for instance, I use Clearbit Connect, which is a sales enablement tool that interfaces with Gmail and [Sales 00:   16:   06] and Salesforce. And I use that as an email look up finder, but it wasn’t meant for recruiting. Are there any tools that you use that are… Because I know it’s about the man, not about the tools, but are there any tools that you use that are sales enablement tools that you’ve co-opted to be recruiting tools?

Michael Batman :      So yes. Short answer to that. And just to give some background on that. It is about the person, not necessarily the tools, but like as a caveat to that also, if you’re not working with sufficient tooling, which talks about, we’ll talk about in our 2022 kind of outlook, if you’re not using sufficient tooling, you’re going to be shit. At some point your competition’s going to pass you, right? I don’t care how good of a contractor you are. If you’re telling me you’re going to build my house with a hammer and a saw, the house is either going to take 10 years to build or it’s going to be a piece of shit, right? The tools do come into play a little bit, or a lot of it actually, it’s just a combination of the tool and how I use it.

Michael Batman :      So I just pulled up my tooling here to give a look. So let’s see some sales tools that I use on my side. One is ZoomInfo, right. Which a lot of people know is contact info and sales work. They also are coming out with a recruit… I don’t know if I’m even supposed to [inaudible 00:   17:   28] but I haven’t signed an NDA yet. So they’re coming out with a recruiting platform and an engagement platform. And so they’ve realized, holy crap, it’s kind of the same thing, but maybe with a different wrapper around it. So they’re going to work on coming out with that. And so using that for sure, particularly for the email lookups.

Michael Batman :      Crunchbase Pro we just signed up for, really awesome for market research, right. When I want to know like, “Hey, what are the top?” I just did this yesterday. “What are the top high growth, tech companies in either California, Texas, or Florida with under 500 employees?” Like boom here you go, there’s your list export it, use it in a string. So that one’s a pretty good one. And then other sales tools that I’m looking at here. The LinkedIn automation tools are great, right? So like people using like Dux-Soup or lemlist for some of the linked automation, I think that’s awesome.

Michael Batman :      And then traditionally email validation tools have been traditionally used in sales and marketing. And we literally do not send a single email to candidates until we’ve run it through an email validation tool already. So I think on the sales side, those are probably the… I’m still trying to like look through and get them, I think those are probably the majority of the ones that we’re using on recruiting.

Brian Fink:   Okay. All right. So, all right. So you mentioned some good tools there that are paid, that are free, especially with email validation tools, you laid a kernel that I’m going to plant, I’m going to turn it into a lovely flower and I’m going to let this thing bloom. I want to know what you are thinking about is on the horizon for 2022 for recruiters?

Michael Batman :      On the… For recruiters? Sourcers? Like what? Can we be more specific? The recruiting industry? What are we looking at here?

Brian Fink:   Yeah. So, okay. So let me kind of follow that up, is that I had a conversation, Ryan and I had a conversation with the lovely sourcer’s supreme, Miss. Shannon Pritchett, who I am going to get that moniker to stick, for sourcer supreme. Is that, yeah. You like that? Okay. It’s all good.

Michael Batman :      I’m down with that. I will help enable that to. Yeah.

Brian Fink:   Thank you. I appreciate that. Is that we asked her what she sees out there for recruiters in 2022? She gave an answer where she talked about trends and compensation. She talked about trends in and hiring that it was going to be as competitive in 2022 as it was in 2021 to attract talent and to attract recruiters to new opportunities. What are you seeing out there? What’s in your Crystal ball?

Michael Batman :      You know that’s a good question. So what am I seeing out there? Right now it’s the busiest, maybe we’ve been all year, honestly. And we saw that trend last year too. Which historically in recruiting, I don’t know, has always been the case for us normally on the past September, October, we’re the busiest and December started to slow down. So that’s a cool one. Honestly what I think and people are not going to love this answer. I think as we get towards the later part of last year, things are going to massively slow down. And I think as we approach 2023, just based on the boom here, in things settling back down, it’s going to look like a hiring recession for us. But it’s really just going to be the market stabilizing. It’s going to be my opinion.

Michael Batman :      On what the market’s going to look like. I think in terms of just industry in general, sales is, obviously people are hiring sales people like crazy, recruiters like crazy and technology to a degree. Depending on the industry is never really dipped down even over the last two years, right? Like media or e-commerce has actually done fairly well throughout the COVID era, if you will. So I don’t know, does that answer kind of what you were looking for there?

Brian Fink:   Yeah. But you talk about things dying down. Do you think that… I asked this question the other day, I forget, maybe it was you. Maybe you and I were just like spitting in the wind, do you think that people are getting into recruiting for the wrong reason? Like the same way that people got into real estate speculation and got into mortgage brokering back in the heyday before the housing crisis?

Michael Batman :      I think… I don’t want to get too generalized with that to say, yes. People are, people aren’t. I think the amount of people getting into recruiting for the wrong reasons has actually gone down in my opinion from what I see. And it may just be the crowd I’ve been running with. But I think one of the areas that we’re coming from and battling is that idea of the used car salesman approach, right? Just throwing so much shit at the wall and kind of seeing what sticks not caring about the quality of it. And I think it’s a bottom up approach, right? Like the smaller companies, the industry’s thought leaders, right? The folks we’re hanging out with the conferences and shit like that are starting to change that and their general approach to how they interact with candidates and the market as a whole.

Michael Batman :      And I think that’ll slowly work its way up into the more mid-sized companies, which I think we’re getting to now. And then at some point the enterprise companies are going to start doing the same and it’s two prong, right? One is internal at companies, which I think needs a bunch of love. But I think the love on that side has to come from management and metrics, honestly. And a shift of how we look at that.

Michael Batman :      And then the big one, and this I think will be the slowest to change are the large name brand recruiting agencies. The Robert Halfs and Michael Pages and all of them of the world who still are, in my opinion, chop shops focused on generating revenue not servicing clients based on my experience, is why their retention rate is so incredibly low. And so I think that is a direction we’re heading, which is great. And I think the other piece beyond that is looking at employees as investments, as opposed to revenue generating humans and realizing, “Hey, if we actually invest in them as humans, they’ll stay longer and the longer they stay, the more productive and efficient they’ll be thus generating actually even more revenue than whatever we’re investing in them.”

Brian Fink:   It’s interesting- go for it Ryan.

Ryan Leary:   Yeah. Question around investing in employees. So everyone talks about investing in employees so that they’ll stay longer. What does that mean though? What is investing in employees? Is it training? Is it just showing love? What exactly is it?

Michael Batman :      Yes. Is a short answer to both of those. So what does that look like? I’m going to talk about what we do at Wayne Tech. Because I think this is an area I happen to excel in. I am not a great manager, anybody can attest for that, I am not great at operations and running a company. I’m just not. Branding, sales, sourcing, recruiting. Yeah. Hell yeah. Leadership. Yeah. Management, operations I’m just not, right. So this is an area I’m pretty proud of. So what does that look like for us internally? So number one, when people start for the first month or two, depending on the relationship we do a one-on-one every week. And the one-on-one is two part, it’s a start, stop, continue, which Patty McCord talks about in her book Power. Where she talks about her experience as a C-H-R-O early on in Netflix.

Michael Batman :      And the other part is goals. So we literally start going with it’s a two way start, stop, continue. So I tell whoever the new person on my team is, “Hey, I want you to start doing this.” It’s a thing they’re not doing. “I want you to stop doing this.” A thing they’re doing, I don’t like, “And I want you to continue doing this.” The thing they’re doing that I really enjoy. There’s no defensiveness. There’s no anything. It’s just this is what I want. And then they do that to me. “Mike, I want you to start doing this. I want you to stop doing this. I want… ” All right it’s a little uncomfortable but it builds vulnerability. Then we go to goals. And we literally talk about, “hey in the last week or last month,” however long it’s been based on their tenure, “What are some things you’re feeling you’re successful at?And what are some things that you think are opportunities for growth for you?”

Michael Batman :      And I guess I’m thinking about first off the wins. Yeah. Let’s celebrate and then what are they working on? Then we go over goals and we go over their goals. I don’t give a shit about my goals for them in the company. Well, “I want you to generate X amount.” That’s my shit to deal with not theirs. If I’m doing a good job that shouldn’t fall on them. So what do we go over? “What do you want to do professionally?” Right. I know one of my guys really wants to do management and get into it. Right. Julia loves the operations side, the organization, the account management side. She’s also a good sourcer, insane message writer. Yeah. Wonder woman, right? Or [Womber 00:   26:   33] woman. And so, that’s what Maddie calls her.

Michael Batman :      And so we talk about that. “What does that look like for you? What’s the timeframe? What do we have to do to get you there?” And these aren’t just Wayne Tech goals, right? These are like, “Hey, I want to be a speaker. I want to be a writer. I want to… ,” whatever the professional goal is. And we talk about every one of them every time until we phase them out or put them on pause. Then we do the same thing for personal goals, right? I know Chris on my team wants to run a marathon. I know that [Nickko 00:   27:   02] is taking up Brazilian jiu-jitsu and wants to progress through that. And he wants to get his skydiving license, God bless you Nickko, for the love of God, please be safe, right. And so I know all these things. And so we talk about them every time, talk about all of their goals, personal, nothing to do with Wayne Tech, right? And so we go over that, it creates that type of relationship.

Michael Batman :      And then also there’s the actual physical investment. So number one, we don’t do hours. If you have remote employees and you’re like, “Oh hey, we work nine to five or 10 to like, stop it. It’s stupid. I am telling you that is a stupid way to work. You have shit to do, get your shit done and attend your meetings period. Who cares if they’re doing it from eight to midnight or two to 3:   00 AM, who gives a shit? There’s literally no difference. Make your meetings, get your shit done. So totally flexible schedule. Totally flexible location. I don’t care where you work, right. Nickko was talking about moving like Minnesota or Wisconsin, which is awesome, he’s a cool dude. If you don’t know him, people need to connect with him and I don’t care wherever you want to work. That’s cool.

Michael Batman :      And then on the investment side, right? So I reimburse for cell phone because you’re going to use your cell phone to check your email and stuff. I reimburse money each month for fitness, right? So I want people to be active and like healthy and so like we do that. And then everybody gets a thousand dollars a year for training, not recruiter training, I’m going to pay for that. That benefits me. I’m talking about any training, right? Like Julia, literally, what day is it? Wednesday, tomorrow has her exam to pass her level one [Soma-Lie 00:   28:   37] license, right? So she’s using the money towards her Soma-Lie license. Nickko using it towards his skydiving, right? Chris is using it towards, he wants to take up stained glass, right? And so it’s investing in them as people for the stuff they want to do. And that is how you get folks to buy into you as a company and as a person, not as a job.

Brian Fink:   All right. So real quick, this is the part where… Okay so, Ryan, I got to let you know, you were quiet as fuck, but you jumped in here and you may have turned this whole thing on its head. If I’m-

Ryan Leary:   I was quiet today, I’m sorry.

Brian Fink:   You were like a fucking ninja. Alright-

Ryan Leary:   I was listening to everything and becoming a sponge.

Brian Fink:   All right. So what I got from that is that because I’m taking notes, I’m showing him the screen. What I got from that is that Batman has seven key ingredients to what retaining employees and investing in employees looks like. One, he’s rewarding loyalty. Two, he’s listening to his team members. Three, he’s giving people the opportunity to grow. Four, he’s focusing on culture and personal connections. Number five, he’s established a higher purpose for those individuals. Number six, he’s taking care of those individuals that are on his team. And then number seven, the big takeaway was creating or incorporating a flexible work environment. Mike, would you say those are the seven key ingredients to why Wayne Tech is so successful.

Michael Batman :      Nice. Yeah. Can you also send those to me? Cause that would make a really great article.

Brian Fink:   Okay. We will.

Michael Batman :      That is awesome.

Ryan Leary:   I was just going to ask you to send them to me for the show notes because that was a great wrap. That was good.

Brian Fink:   Yeah. So what I wanted to wrap on and what I thought we were going to end on is… You know what, man, they do this in some movies, and especially superhero movies, they don’t end the movie when you should end it. I’m going to end it there. I got your question was going to be “What’s wrong with sourcing today?” But I think if we go down that road, that we are going to completely miss the message that Mike blessed us with today in talking about how-

Michael Batman :      No, no, no, No. It’s the same message actually. No. Its a great way to end. It’s the same message, right? At the end of the day of what I’m doing with my company and I’m trying to do is being authentic, being vulnerable with my folks, allowing them to be authentic and vulnerable with me and realizing that in order to do that, there’s a human component of actually caring about them as people and allowing them to care about me as people.

Michael Batman :      What’s wrong with sourcing. We’re losing that. So I think it’s a combination of, are you dealing with the data appropriately? No, is typically the answer. And are you acting authentically and vulnerably? And the answer is, probably even more so, no. Because people are nervous, right? Like, “Oh, I don’t want to get fired.” Or like when I talk to folks, I’m like, “Hey, how do you open an email?

Michael Batman :      And like, “Dear, your first name.” And I’m like, “Cut that shit out.” Nobody does that. That’s not a thing, right? How do you actually start an email-

Brian Fink:   Dearest Miguel.

Michael Batman :      Yeah. My sincerest regards, right? And so I think it comes out to the same thing, man. I’m authentically and unapologetically myself. You commented on, when I posted looking to hire a new sourcer, and my post on LinkedIn was all about my flaws and the difficult shit you’re going to face having to deal with me as a human. And I think that in business in general, but in sourcing here, I think we need to embrace that more. We need to embrace that we’re going to fuck things up and that’s okay, right? You’re going to do that, right?

Michael Batman :      I have to let Julia go and do her thing. She’s expanding, right? She’s growing within the company. She’s basically becoming my right hand human and I have to realize, right? She’s going to fuck some stuff up. She’s never done it before and that’s okay. As long as she is representing herself authentically, not representing Wayne Tech authentically. That’s my job, as a company. I hired her because of who she was. She’s got an amazing personality. She’s loyal. She’s got a huge heart. She always wants to do the right thing by everybody. Sometimes to her detriment, Julia, if you’re listening to this, stop that. And she cares about quality and organization and efficiency. So I want her to be her, right? Because who she is, is representative of my company. I don’t need her to represent this idea of what Wayne Tech is, just be Julia.

Brian Fink:   So point number eight after incorporate a flexible work environment is, be authentic. Bring your human component to work.

Michael Batman :      Love that.

Music:      Oh man, that means it’s over. You’ve been listening to the recruiting live podcast by RecruitingDaily. Check out the latest industry podcast, webinars, articles and [email protected]

Ryan Leary

Ryan Leary helps create the processes, ideas and innovation that drives RecruitingDaily. He’s our in-house expert for anything related to sourcing, tools or technology. A lead generation and brand buzz building machine, he has built superior funnel systems for some of the industries top HR Tech and Recruitment brands. He is a veteran to the online community and a partner here at RecruitingDaily.

Brian Fink

In 280 characters or less, Brian Fink is a Senior Technical Sourcer at Twitter. Obsessed with all things sourcing and recruiting, Fink focuses on attracting open-source technologists who want to build the future!


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